All I know is that no proof that this is a replica has been offered. This is all based on conjecture at this point. I'm not saying that the helmet is an original (I have no idea to be honest) but I'm not going to agree that it's a fake just because Gino says so. You say it's fake Gino? Post some proof. Until you do, this is just a witch hunt.
Is this passing off a replica trooper helmet as original?
- Status
GINO
Sr Member
Don't worry, I'm getting ready to post a much more comprehensive set of emails/pms.
If he just came straight out and said, hey check out my replica, there wouldn't be a problem here.
And although we both have 1st gen molds taken directly from screen used pieces, I don't have any plans to publicly offer any.
So yeah, if he made replicas, it would be good for you.
.
If he just came straight out and said, hey check out my replica, there wouldn't be a problem here.
And although we both have 1st gen molds taken directly from screen used pieces, I don't have any plans to publicly offer any.
So yeah, if he made replicas, it would be good for you.
.
GINO
Sr Member
Don't you think it would be easier for him to post proof that it indeed is?
I don't think we'll see any.
And don't forget, something cast from an original is going to look exactly the same. And since he owned an original, he knows a lot of the tells found on the originals so I have no doubt they would be included.
.
I don't think we'll see any.
And don't forget, something cast from an original is going to look exactly the same. And since he owned an original, he knows a lot of the tells found on the originals so I have no doubt they would be included.
.
madrobot
Sr Member
Oh man... Now that actually sounds pretty cool.
Keith
Sr Member
I thought they were the same molds. Either way, as you said you have no plans to offer any.
Loads of us who would like a ROTJ replica have been waiting for another set of molds to be made.
Anyway, back to the helmet. That left "hero" ear is not from the original helmet Joe owned. I'm confused about the right ear, whic seems to be the standard type of ear.
Keith.
Loads of us who would like a ROTJ replica have been waiting for another set of molds to be made.
Anyway, back to the helmet. That left "hero" ear is not from the original helmet Joe owned. I'm confused about the right ear, whic seems to be the standard type of ear.
Keith.
Yes, it would be hard to determine from a picture if it truly is an original.
Were the originals cast out of fiberglass? If so, a helmet that old--the fiberglass would have a distinct odor to it. Just sand a little of the exposed glass on the inside and you can tell if it's fresh glass or old. Of course one would need to be present to determine the authenticity.
godaiking
Well-Known Member
This thread is a great way to build post counts. So im joining in. Thanks guys
Good point. And I'm under a 100 posts, so here's a free one from me.
-Joe
GINO
Sr Member
In order to truly understand the situation here, there is quite a bit of backstory. I've tried to lay everything out as best I could with the emails/pms that I had left. Some of the conversations took place over the phone so it might seem choppy in areas.
It's a long read. I'm actually having to cut it into two posts.
Here's where this all started.
A couple of years ago, JoeR, aka prophunter contacted me to tell me that he had acquired an original ROTJ helmet that he wanted to mold and make replicas from. I recognized the helmet immediately as it was the original ROTJ helmet that had been horribly restored including techniques such as sanding the yellowed surface of the plastic off and having the one remaining earcap siliconed in place. A lot of people other than me are familiar with this helmet.
He wanted to mold it but it was missing one of the earpieces. He knew that I had the only set of ROTJ trooper molds that touched the insides of a real helmet/suit, and approached me to see if I would sell him a vac formed ear, or make him the missing ear mold for his run of helmets. He had a prop maker in the UK create the other molds from the helmet already.
I was not interested in giving him either, unless I could be involved with the replication process. I offered to offered to re-mold the helmet (as I didn't trust the prop maker would have correctly preserved the integrity of the vac formed parts) for him or use his existing molds (if they were up to spec) and produce an extremely limited number of replicas amongst trusted friends. He said that he would like to but there were a couple of issues. First, he wanted to make a lot more pieces than I felt comfortable with. Second, he said the prop maker had not been paid for his efforts and he was relying on paying him with sales from his helmet run. Therefore the prop maker would not release the molds.
I said, no biggie, when you get your situation settled, come back to me and we'll do it right. Mind you, I already have molds for a ROTJ helmet, but I'm always interested in molding any screen used prop, even if it is a duplicate of something I already have.
This really upset him, so he sought out another person for the earcap mold (which was sub par).
Communication about the possibility of the project withered so I just wrote if off as him just trying to get the earpiece from me with no intention of having me involved outside of that. Still no big deal. It's not like I don't already have my own or anything.
No sour grapes, just a bad taste in my mouth for wasting my time as well as bitter feelings for consistently taking jabs at me on the forums over the years because I wouldn't give him an earcap, let him buy a v2 helmet, or let him on my forum.
Here goes:
At the time of this message, we had already talked about the possibility of having me look over the molds made by his prop maker to see if they were made correctly.
3-19-2007 from Joe
Gino
The mould maker is in Thailand working on Rambo 4 for at least 8-9 weeks! He still hasn't sent me the photos.
I am considering getting new moulds done, fancy a trip to the UK?
Joe
Here is a second request asking for the earpiece after being denied approx. 6 months earlier. As if I would say yes this time around.
6-15-07 from Joe
Gino
I need a right hand ear piece (wearing the helmet) from the TE moulds, I also would like permission to cast it for my run of ROTJ helmets.
Would you be willing to do this? If so can you let me know how much you want in $$$ and the best form of payment.
Thanks
Joe
Big gap here. This is his message to me regarding a post I made on some forum after I saw him state that he has gotten a second choice vac formed earpiece from another trooper person. I then questioned if that meant that he no longer wished to have me involved. He assured me yes, but he still couldn't get the molds back from the prop maker.
11-27-07 from Joe
Thank you.
I have been out of order.
In answer to the questions:
1. I am not friends with ****, I needed an ear piece so I contacted him. He is already kicking off about money etc etc. He is bad news.
2. All I want is a run from the moulds to recoup the vast sum I spent on the helmet.
I would love to do something with you. My issues are getting hold of the moulds, they are still in London, I should be getting them back before Christmas.
Joe
Another touch base message trying to keep me on the line.
12-05-07 from Joe
Gino
The moulds are being shipped to me at the end of this week or my father is going to pick them up from London next weekend if we can tie it it.
They have been stuck with this guy who has been working constantly on various films, hence the delay:
http://www.lifecast.co.uk/
He took the moulds from the helmet.
Joe
This is where it gets interesting. Looking back, I believe at this point he had planned to take one of his replica ROTJ helmets and try to pass it off as an original ESB. You'll see in later messages where he brags about obtaining a pristine original ESB helmet which we all know never materialized. These next exchanges are him trying to make a case for ROTJ helmets actually originating in ESB.
12-05-07 from Joe
Gino
A friend of mine has a theory that the background studio ROTJ Stormtrooper helmets were used in ESB as stunt helmets.
What do you think of this?
Joe
12-05-07 from Gino
Definitely not.
The ESB helmets were re-purposed ANH helmets. All of which were made out of grey-ish green 'khaki' colored HDPE.
Both styles of ROTJ helmets were made out of white ABS.
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I think you are wrong.
Photo evidence coming shortly, you obviously haven't watched ESB closely enough!
Joe
12-06-07 from Joe
Not sure how you can say definitely unless you have some sort of evidence.
This trooper looks like a background helmet to me, low brow, elongated face and NO HDPE chips at all, also a squared off frown:
[flawed comparison photo was here]
There are also troopers with ab edging in ESB.
John Mollo remarked about "the 'Mark 2' helmets which were made for TESB from white vac-formed plastic - not like the painted ones from the first movie."
I have spotted an ESB blaster in the Endor scenes in Jedi....
That combined with the interior 'tell' in the background helmets makes it a distinct possibility.
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
They didn't make new stormtrooper pieces until ROTJ.
There were only like 9 or 10 ESB troopers (not counting snowtroopers).
12-06-007 from Joe
Do you have any evidence of this? Would be interested to hear.
Take care
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
Yeah actually.
Why do you ask me if you aren't going to believe what I have to say?
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I am trying to find out if these helmets might have been used in ESB, random statements are no good, I need facts.
12-06-07 from Gino
They weren't.
12-06-07 from Joe
What is this elusive proof then, that contradicts John Mollo?
If you want to work with me you have to COMMUNICATE!
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
Then Mollo is remembering incorrectly, or there is a miscommunication.
During ESB, they called the snowtroopers "stormtroopers". Ask him if you don't believe me.
There weren't any 'traditional anh style' stormtroopers formed in ESB.
I'm referencing a list that has the breakdown of vac formed costume pieces (not set pieces) made for esb. Not that I would go by that list entirely on its own merit anyway, but everything else I've seen, substantiates that.
Also Joe, you need to understand something. We've never worked on a project together so I have nothing to go on in terms of trust with you. At least you have my body of work over a long period of time to look at, as well as other respected people in this hobby who know me personally, and that any info I post about props can be taken to the bank.
You keep rubbing me the wrong way and questioning my knowledge (which you come to me to ask in the first place). I don't need **** like this from someone.
Don't ask me for info anymore if you are just going to insult me when I give it to you.
Again, here you can see his intention to produce replicas from his ROTJ helmet, as well a plant the seeds for trying to pass off an ESB.
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I don't have an attitude at all. I don't expect answers to polite questions like "no they weren't" backed up with nothing. You act as if your word is law. No-one needs to be that arrogant. Why shouldn't I ask for some evidence?
Its a shame you have to be like this.
I was holding back on telling to that I have tracked down an original ESB Stormtrooper helmet and I am negotiating to buy it, it will be long and drawn out but I have a very good chance of securing it.
Someone else will benefit from my ROTJ and potentially ESB helmet moulds.
Joe
I knew it was BS about this non-existent ESB helmet even back then, and didn't even give it the time of day to comment on it in my response.
12-06-07 from Gino
If you knew me better, you would understand that it's not arrogance.
You say why shouldn't you ask for some evidence. I say, why the hell should I give it to you? I don't know you outside of a couple of phone conversations and you have been disrespectful to me for a good half of the time I've known of you. Do you realize how insulting that is to me?
You've given me absolutley nothing to go on or to start building a trust or relationship. And you think I'm going to just hand over my best kept secrets? Are you kidding? At least I gave you honest and true answers.
Also, I told you what I know and it is solid. I would never give out information that I knew wasn't true. If you don't trust my knowledge, then you shouldn't be asking me in the first place. If you had started out asking for documented proof of your question, I'd have told you to look elsewhere (which you would never get anyway).
(cont. on next post)
.
It's a long read. I'm actually having to cut it into two posts.
Here's where this all started.
A couple of years ago, JoeR, aka prophunter contacted me to tell me that he had acquired an original ROTJ helmet that he wanted to mold and make replicas from. I recognized the helmet immediately as it was the original ROTJ helmet that had been horribly restored including techniques such as sanding the yellowed surface of the plastic off and having the one remaining earcap siliconed in place. A lot of people other than me are familiar with this helmet.
He wanted to mold it but it was missing one of the earpieces. He knew that I had the only set of ROTJ trooper molds that touched the insides of a real helmet/suit, and approached me to see if I would sell him a vac formed ear, or make him the missing ear mold for his run of helmets. He had a prop maker in the UK create the other molds from the helmet already.
I was not interested in giving him either, unless I could be involved with the replication process. I offered to offered to re-mold the helmet (as I didn't trust the prop maker would have correctly preserved the integrity of the vac formed parts) for him or use his existing molds (if they were up to spec) and produce an extremely limited number of replicas amongst trusted friends. He said that he would like to but there were a couple of issues. First, he wanted to make a lot more pieces than I felt comfortable with. Second, he said the prop maker had not been paid for his efforts and he was relying on paying him with sales from his helmet run. Therefore the prop maker would not release the molds.
I said, no biggie, when you get your situation settled, come back to me and we'll do it right. Mind you, I already have molds for a ROTJ helmet, but I'm always interested in molding any screen used prop, even if it is a duplicate of something I already have.
This really upset him, so he sought out another person for the earcap mold (which was sub par).
Communication about the possibility of the project withered so I just wrote if off as him just trying to get the earpiece from me with no intention of having me involved outside of that. Still no big deal. It's not like I don't already have my own or anything.
No sour grapes, just a bad taste in my mouth for wasting my time as well as bitter feelings for consistently taking jabs at me on the forums over the years because I wouldn't give him an earcap, let him buy a v2 helmet, or let him on my forum.
Here goes:
At the time of this message, we had already talked about the possibility of having me look over the molds made by his prop maker to see if they were made correctly.
3-19-2007 from Joe
Gino
The mould maker is in Thailand working on Rambo 4 for at least 8-9 weeks! He still hasn't sent me the photos.
I am considering getting new moulds done, fancy a trip to the UK?
Joe
Here is a second request asking for the earpiece after being denied approx. 6 months earlier. As if I would say yes this time around.
6-15-07 from Joe
Gino
I need a right hand ear piece (wearing the helmet) from the TE moulds, I also would like permission to cast it for my run of ROTJ helmets.
Would you be willing to do this? If so can you let me know how much you want in $$$ and the best form of payment.
Thanks
Joe
Big gap here. This is his message to me regarding a post I made on some forum after I saw him state that he has gotten a second choice vac formed earpiece from another trooper person. I then questioned if that meant that he no longer wished to have me involved. He assured me yes, but he still couldn't get the molds back from the prop maker.
11-27-07 from Joe
Thank you.
I have been out of order.
In answer to the questions:
1. I am not friends with ****, I needed an ear piece so I contacted him. He is already kicking off about money etc etc. He is bad news.
2. All I want is a run from the moulds to recoup the vast sum I spent on the helmet.
I would love to do something with you. My issues are getting hold of the moulds, they are still in London, I should be getting them back before Christmas.
Joe
Another touch base message trying to keep me on the line.
12-05-07 from Joe
Gino
The moulds are being shipped to me at the end of this week or my father is going to pick them up from London next weekend if we can tie it it.
They have been stuck with this guy who has been working constantly on various films, hence the delay:
http://www.lifecast.co.uk/
He took the moulds from the helmet.
Joe
This is where it gets interesting. Looking back, I believe at this point he had planned to take one of his replica ROTJ helmets and try to pass it off as an original ESB. You'll see in later messages where he brags about obtaining a pristine original ESB helmet which we all know never materialized. These next exchanges are him trying to make a case for ROTJ helmets actually originating in ESB.
12-05-07 from Joe
Gino
A friend of mine has a theory that the background studio ROTJ Stormtrooper helmets were used in ESB as stunt helmets.
What do you think of this?
Joe
12-05-07 from Gino
Definitely not.
The ESB helmets were re-purposed ANH helmets. All of which were made out of grey-ish green 'khaki' colored HDPE.
Both styles of ROTJ helmets were made out of white ABS.
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I think you are wrong.
Photo evidence coming shortly, you obviously haven't watched ESB closely enough!
Joe
12-06-07 from Joe
Not sure how you can say definitely unless you have some sort of evidence.
This trooper looks like a background helmet to me, low brow, elongated face and NO HDPE chips at all, also a squared off frown:
[flawed comparison photo was here]
There are also troopers with ab edging in ESB.
John Mollo remarked about "the 'Mark 2' helmets which were made for TESB from white vac-formed plastic - not like the painted ones from the first movie."
I have spotted an ESB blaster in the Endor scenes in Jedi....
That combined with the interior 'tell' in the background helmets makes it a distinct possibility.
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
They didn't make new stormtrooper pieces until ROTJ.
There were only like 9 or 10 ESB troopers (not counting snowtroopers).
12-06-007 from Joe
Do you have any evidence of this? Would be interested to hear.
Take care
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
Yeah actually.
Why do you ask me if you aren't going to believe what I have to say?
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I am trying to find out if these helmets might have been used in ESB, random statements are no good, I need facts.
12-06-07 from Gino
They weren't.
12-06-07 from Joe
What is this elusive proof then, that contradicts John Mollo?
If you want to work with me you have to COMMUNICATE!
Joe
12-06-07 from Gino
Then Mollo is remembering incorrectly, or there is a miscommunication.
During ESB, they called the snowtroopers "stormtroopers". Ask him if you don't believe me.
There weren't any 'traditional anh style' stormtroopers formed in ESB.
I'm referencing a list that has the breakdown of vac formed costume pieces (not set pieces) made for esb. Not that I would go by that list entirely on its own merit anyway, but everything else I've seen, substantiates that.
Also Joe, you need to understand something. We've never worked on a project together so I have nothing to go on in terms of trust with you. At least you have my body of work over a long period of time to look at, as well as other respected people in this hobby who know me personally, and that any info I post about props can be taken to the bank.
You keep rubbing me the wrong way and questioning my knowledge (which you come to me to ask in the first place). I don't need **** like this from someone.
Don't ask me for info anymore if you are just going to insult me when I give it to you.
Again, here you can see his intention to produce replicas from his ROTJ helmet, as well a plant the seeds for trying to pass off an ESB.
12-06-07 from Joe
Gino
I don't have an attitude at all. I don't expect answers to polite questions like "no they weren't" backed up with nothing. You act as if your word is law. No-one needs to be that arrogant. Why shouldn't I ask for some evidence?
Its a shame you have to be like this.
I was holding back on telling to that I have tracked down an original ESB Stormtrooper helmet and I am negotiating to buy it, it will be long and drawn out but I have a very good chance of securing it.
Someone else will benefit from my ROTJ and potentially ESB helmet moulds.
Joe
I knew it was BS about this non-existent ESB helmet even back then, and didn't even give it the time of day to comment on it in my response.
12-06-07 from Gino
If you knew me better, you would understand that it's not arrogance.
You say why shouldn't you ask for some evidence. I say, why the hell should I give it to you? I don't know you outside of a couple of phone conversations and you have been disrespectful to me for a good half of the time I've known of you. Do you realize how insulting that is to me?
You've given me absolutley nothing to go on or to start building a trust or relationship. And you think I'm going to just hand over my best kept secrets? Are you kidding? At least I gave you honest and true answers.
Also, I told you what I know and it is solid. I would never give out information that I knew wasn't true. If you don't trust my knowledge, then you shouldn't be asking me in the first place. If you had started out asking for documented proof of your question, I'd have told you to look elsewhere (which you would never get anyway).
(cont. on next post)
.
Last edited by a moderator:
GINO
Sr Member
(cont. from above post)
About 2 months later, I was getting rid of one of my helmets and he approached me about it. There are numerous times where he approached me practically begging for a helmet and every time I denied him, and told him it was because there was a gaping huge lack of trust between us.
1-31-08 from Joe
Gino
I am looking for a display helmet. If you will sell to me i'll take it.
Joe
At this point I just didn't want anything to do with him. It was nuts, he would bash on me in posts, then later pm triyng to be my friend. This happened over and over even as recently as last week. I just can't deal with people's erratic roller coaster personalities. He's like Gollom/Smeagle.
2-1-08 from Gino
Joe,
Don't try to contact me anymore.
Several months later after I knew he had made molds with intentions of making replicas, I found out that he had sold his restored original ROTJ trooper helmet to Propstore. I knew that he didn't mention to them that he had cast it and planned on producing a ton of replicas, so I messaged him to see if he would admit it.
5-4-08 from Gino
So you sold your trooper helmet.
Too bad you never got your replica project off the ground. Can I now say, "I told you so".
Here is where he lets me know the replica project DID happen and that I was wrong about saying it didn't. Also, at this point, Propstore was now asking about his run of replicas and Joe was less than cooperative in answering.
5-5-08 from Joe
Not sure where you are getting your information but it is incorrect...
I have no wish to argue with you, believe what you like.
I presume you are fishing for information for Stephen Lane, don't bother, I'm not going to tell you anything.
A couple days later, he decides to message me and tell me about this 'original' ESB helmet he acquired. There never was a real helmet. He was straight BS-ing. Of course, he makes a point to point out that it was in "untouched" condition. At this very moment, I felt even more certain that this was one of his replicas he planned on passing off.
Oh yeah, he's an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props. Give me a frakkin break.
5-7-08 from Joe
I am now in possession of the ESB Stormtrooper helmet. It is in a very poor state but unlike the Jedi helmet untouched.
Whatever you think of me I am an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props.....
Joe
I must have really upset him. At least enough to resort to disturbing name calling. If you're going to make an insult, at least have it make sense.
5-9-08 from Joe
Feeling jealous that I have found a second stormtrooper helmet?
Even in your wildest dreams you wouldn't even know where to start with finding an orignal bucket, let alone two!!!!
You must be a homosexual!!!!
Skip ahead a few months and I get this. Joe makes a habit of posting pics on forums of his old original helmet, as though he still owns it. I merely made a corrective post on a forum stating that Propstore now owns the helmet. It prompted this message. He then goes on to tell me of yet ANOTHER original helmet that has come into his possession. Hey what happened to that original untouched perfect condition ESB helmet you acquired? Must have evaporated. Or maybe he dreamt it. Or maybe it was supposed to be his first attempt at passing off a replica as original, but decided not to go that route since he had learned from me that the ROTJ helmets were made new for ROTJ and not used in ESB.
9-23-08 from Joe
Thanks for the petty post on the ******. I am happy for you to tell anyone about my old helmet. I am glad to have got rid of it, it was polished down with brasso and re-painted and re-assembled incorrectly twice!
On a more positive note, I have another original helmet being picked up tomorrow. If you don't believe me, you will see pictures on the forums next week...
Joe
9-26-07 from Joe
When I pick it up tonight I will do some shots.
Would you give me your opinion on it?
Joe
Reluctantly and very suspiciously, I agreed to look at it.
9-26-08 from Gino
I suppose.
9-26-08 from Joe
Gino
Don't worry, if you can't even be courteous, I won't bother.
Take care
Joe
9-26-08 from Gino
I really don't care either way.
If you want to fine, if you don't then don't.
9-26-08 from Joe
Gino
I was trying to extend the hand of friendship, but you don't seem interested.
I understand how you feel, considering our history.
Regards
Joe
9-26-08 from Gino
Based on how you've been with me, can you blame me for not just shrugging it all off? I'm willing to try to let old things die, but you have to understand that it will take some time and also I need to see proof over time that you are sincere.
Finally, some accurate self reflection on his part. I immediately saw red flags when he said it was a naked helmet and the whole falsifying thing came rushing back. I felt like he was using me to help legitimize his piece as he did before when he felt me out about the ROTJ style helmets being used in ESB.
9-26-08 from Joe
Thank you.
I totally understand that.
Seeing you help out Niall, made me think I have been acting like a doush.
I have scored a helmet from Jedi, it came direct from an extra on the set, interestingly it has no painted, nor decal areas.
It does have original trims, bubble lenses, and what really excites me, a hard hat liner exactly the same as the Matt G/Dave M Jedi helmet.
Aparently there are pics of unpainted/undecaled helmets on the set.
Do you have any insight into why the helmet would be finished lens and liner wise but have no decals nor painted areas?
Kind regards
Joe
Ps: Pics to follow when I have it in hand.
9-26-08 from Gino
I've not seen any on film or production shots of non-detailed helmets.
I'll take a look at it for you and give you my honest opinion.
Pics never came, they just appeared on the forums.
Is there any actual smoking gun proof here, no.
Does he have any proof, no.
All I say is read this post carefully, and draw your own conclusions.
And keep in mind in the future if this ever comes up for sale, someone could get screwed out of a lot of money.
Certainly there are aspects of this helmet that could help or hurt the case for originality, but he would have to be willing to take much better photographs of specific things.
I'm game to continue to prove/disprove if he is.
If it is indeed real, what does he have to lose?
.
About 2 months later, I was getting rid of one of my helmets and he approached me about it. There are numerous times where he approached me practically begging for a helmet and every time I denied him, and told him it was because there was a gaping huge lack of trust between us.
1-31-08 from Joe
Gino
I am looking for a display helmet. If you will sell to me i'll take it.
Joe
At this point I just didn't want anything to do with him. It was nuts, he would bash on me in posts, then later pm triyng to be my friend. This happened over and over even as recently as last week. I just can't deal with people's erratic roller coaster personalities. He's like Gollom/Smeagle.
2-1-08 from Gino
Joe,
Don't try to contact me anymore.
Several months later after I knew he had made molds with intentions of making replicas, I found out that he had sold his restored original ROTJ trooper helmet to Propstore. I knew that he didn't mention to them that he had cast it and planned on producing a ton of replicas, so I messaged him to see if he would admit it.
5-4-08 from Gino
So you sold your trooper helmet.
Too bad you never got your replica project off the ground. Can I now say, "I told you so".
Here is where he lets me know the replica project DID happen and that I was wrong about saying it didn't. Also, at this point, Propstore was now asking about his run of replicas and Joe was less than cooperative in answering.
5-5-08 from Joe
Not sure where you are getting your information but it is incorrect...
I have no wish to argue with you, believe what you like.
I presume you are fishing for information for Stephen Lane, don't bother, I'm not going to tell you anything.
A couple days later, he decides to message me and tell me about this 'original' ESB helmet he acquired. There never was a real helmet. He was straight BS-ing. Of course, he makes a point to point out that it was in "untouched" condition. At this very moment, I felt even more certain that this was one of his replicas he planned on passing off.
Oh yeah, he's an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props. Give me a frakkin break.
5-7-08 from Joe
I am now in possession of the ESB Stormtrooper helmet. It is in a very poor state but unlike the Jedi helmet untouched.
Whatever you think of me I am an expert at tracking down ultra rare original props.....
Joe
I must have really upset him. At least enough to resort to disturbing name calling. If you're going to make an insult, at least have it make sense.
5-9-08 from Joe
Feeling jealous that I have found a second stormtrooper helmet?
Even in your wildest dreams you wouldn't even know where to start with finding an orignal bucket, let alone two!!!!
You must be a homosexual!!!!
Skip ahead a few months and I get this. Joe makes a habit of posting pics on forums of his old original helmet, as though he still owns it. I merely made a corrective post on a forum stating that Propstore now owns the helmet. It prompted this message. He then goes on to tell me of yet ANOTHER original helmet that has come into his possession. Hey what happened to that original untouched perfect condition ESB helmet you acquired? Must have evaporated. Or maybe he dreamt it. Or maybe it was supposed to be his first attempt at passing off a replica as original, but decided not to go that route since he had learned from me that the ROTJ helmets were made new for ROTJ and not used in ESB.
9-23-08 from Joe
Thanks for the petty post on the ******. I am happy for you to tell anyone about my old helmet. I am glad to have got rid of it, it was polished down with brasso and re-painted and re-assembled incorrectly twice!
On a more positive note, I have another original helmet being picked up tomorrow. If you don't believe me, you will see pictures on the forums next week...
Joe
9-26-07 from Joe
When I pick it up tonight I will do some shots.
Would you give me your opinion on it?
Joe
Reluctantly and very suspiciously, I agreed to look at it.
9-26-08 from Gino
I suppose.
9-26-08 from Joe
Gino
Don't worry, if you can't even be courteous, I won't bother.
Take care
Joe
9-26-08 from Gino
I really don't care either way.
If you want to fine, if you don't then don't.
9-26-08 from Joe
Gino
I was trying to extend the hand of friendship, but you don't seem interested.
I understand how you feel, considering our history.
Regards
Joe
9-26-08 from Gino
Based on how you've been with me, can you blame me for not just shrugging it all off? I'm willing to try to let old things die, but you have to understand that it will take some time and also I need to see proof over time that you are sincere.
Finally, some accurate self reflection on his part. I immediately saw red flags when he said it was a naked helmet and the whole falsifying thing came rushing back. I felt like he was using me to help legitimize his piece as he did before when he felt me out about the ROTJ style helmets being used in ESB.
9-26-08 from Joe
Thank you.
I totally understand that.
Seeing you help out Niall, made me think I have been acting like a doush.
I have scored a helmet from Jedi, it came direct from an extra on the set, interestingly it has no painted, nor decal areas.
It does have original trims, bubble lenses, and what really excites me, a hard hat liner exactly the same as the Matt G/Dave M Jedi helmet.
Aparently there are pics of unpainted/undecaled helmets on the set.
Do you have any insight into why the helmet would be finished lens and liner wise but have no decals nor painted areas?
Kind regards
Joe
Ps: Pics to follow when I have it in hand.
9-26-08 from Gino
I've not seen any on film or production shots of non-detailed helmets.
I'll take a look at it for you and give you my honest opinion.
Pics never came, they just appeared on the forums.
Is there any actual smoking gun proof here, no.
Does he have any proof, no.
All I say is read this post carefully, and draw your own conclusions.
And keep in mind in the future if this ever comes up for sale, someone could get screwed out of a lot of money.
Certainly there are aspects of this helmet that could help or hurt the case for originality, but he would have to be willing to take much better photographs of specific things.
I'm game to continue to prove/disprove if he is.
If it is indeed real, what does he have to lose?
.
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GINO
Sr Member
How about this.
1. Take a good close up shot of the mic tips.
2. Also, take a good close up shot of the interior plastic.
3. Seeing the color of lens would go a long way as well.
Don't worry, everyone has seen these areas on other original helmets, so it's not like you would be revealing anything secret.
If I'm proven wrong, I'd be more than happy to very humbly and genuinely publicly apologize.
So prove it to me.
.
1. Take a good close up shot of the mic tips.
2. Also, take a good close up shot of the interior plastic.
3. Seeing the color of lens would go a long way as well.
Don't worry, everyone has seen these areas on other original helmets, so it's not like you would be revealing anything secret.
If I'm proven wrong, I'd be more than happy to very humbly and genuinely publicly apologize.
So prove it to me.
.
JoeR
Sr Member
:rolleyes
The mic tips are replicas for display added bythe previous owner.
I will not post pics anywhere that Gino might get hold of them. I am happy to privately send pictures to someone like Brandon Alinger for analysis.
This is a silly witch hunt fuled by jealously.
I spent hours with Jez who has handled over ten helmets, and he and I went through every 'tell' on the helmet. Gino has handled none nor provided any proof nor one point that proves this is a replica.
All this BS will be over very shortly...
GINO
Sr Member
Prop Store
Forum Sponsor
I have personally handled and closely inspected this helmet. In addition to this I have had other knowledgeable Star Wars collectors, who have Trooper helmets in their collections inspect this helmet.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is a production made piece. There are multiple 'tells' on this helmet that perfectly match another ROTJ helmet (not Joe's previous helmet) that we had in hand at the same time and that matches other ROTJ helmets that we compared it to.
I can also confirm, having handled Joe's previous helmet, that these items have absolutely no relationship with one another what so ever.
Stephen
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is a production made piece. There are multiple 'tells' on this helmet that perfectly match another ROTJ helmet (not Joe's previous helmet) that we had in hand at the same time and that matches other ROTJ helmets that we compared it to.
I can also confirm, having handled Joe's previous helmet, that these items have absolutely no relationship with one another what so ever.
Stephen
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