holding out on me bro?
An Analysis of ANH Lightsabers Timeline, Stunt Props, and Miscellaneous Theories
- Thread starter LOM
- Start date
LOM at it again, thanks for doing all the hard work for meI was about to buy one of those torches too, then I saw the shipping prices
Thank you for those snippets! dcarty I really need to start picking up more reference books... Added those bits where they are relevant in the original post. I'd love to see a Vader write-up! There is so much to learn, every one in awhile I get curious and research but it's quite intense.
Here's some gifs I just made, quite compressed from the videos though:
View attachment 1472677
View attachment 1472678
The film take appears to strike the dummy in a different location:
View attachment 1472688
The effect in the film is quite different than those two bts takes, I wonder if they encountered issues with the collapsible skeleton that forced them to rig something else up.
These ones are quite interesting because they clearly show the Barbican being used on the final day of filming!
Huh, well that is quite a curious spot in the storyboards!
View attachment 1472682
i agree with the story board, i thought the same as well
...wicked
Yep.
I'm also tired of people knocking the ANH fight, mainly because what came in the films after it was so much more complex and intense. That original fight is STILL cool, dagnabbit.
1) The Chronicles photo really was a re-constructed hilt for record's sake, we think. So, the placement of the windvane may not matter, it's easy to spin up and down and doesn't lock anywhere. Very good eye on seeing the ridge on the bottom of the "pommel".... all AS handwheels of that model (with or without and endcap) look like that
2) Thank you for the R2 details, that's something I'm very unaware of. I don't know if the sabers were considered basic casts.. it took Brian a LOT of work to make the pulls he is doing now, which are arguably better than the cast that propsore sold
3) Yes, definitely the V2 in the Cantina. I haven't seen any other motorized hilts with a switch mounted on the hilt. suuper long blade, and I bet that gives us an idea of what it was, tapered, that was almost 4 feet long if not longer
4) great point on the continuity weapons being needed. I would have completely disregarded that. I bet these are some of the photos... yea, because some props were replaced (han's blaster)
5) I believe the hut, cantina, etc. used Scotchlite fabric. Especially the hut, the lumpy frayed look of the material, and the sheen, really look like my Scotchlite fabric meant for vests and stuff. I glued it to some PVC pipe and it looks just like this.
6) good note that the cut-down scene took a couple days
7) The blades in ANH duel are a lot skinnier than I thought. The best way to tell these sabers a part is the diameter of the emitter face. I personally believe there were casting flaws in the in emitter plate, and they lathed the plate smaller to save the cast. That's how you end up with the V2 or the others. This is a small emitter here
let alone the skinny blade.
here's the death saber
8) MouseVader made a very good argument that they might have had trouble holding the guts in on the Barbican, or holding the emitter on... I don't remember why, but I don't think the 1 set screw was enough when swinging it around
2) Thank you for the R2 details, that's something I'm very unaware of. I don't know if the sabers were considered basic casts.. it took Brian a LOT of work to make the pulls he is doing now, which are arguably better than the cast that propsore sold
3) Yes, definitely the V2 in the Cantina. I haven't seen any other motorized hilts with a switch mounted on the hilt. suuper long blade, and I bet that gives us an idea of what it was, tapered, that was almost 4 feet long if not longer
4) great point on the continuity weapons being needed. I would have completely disregarded that. I bet these are some of the photos... yea, because some props were replaced (han's blaster)
5) I believe the hut, cantina, etc. used Scotchlite fabric. Especially the hut, the lumpy frayed look of the material, and the sheen, really look like my Scotchlite fabric meant for vests and stuff. I glued it to some PVC pipe and it looks just like this.
6) good note that the cut-down scene took a couple days
7) The blades in ANH duel are a lot skinnier than I thought. The best way to tell these sabers a part is the diameter of the emitter face. I personally believe there were casting flaws in the in emitter plate, and they lathed the plate smaller to save the cast. That's how you end up with the V2 or the others. This is a small emitter here
let alone the skinny blade.
here's the death saber
8) MouseVader made a very good argument that they might have had trouble holding the guts in on the Barbican, or holding the emitter on... I don't remember why, but I don't think the 1 set screw was enough when swinging it around
I wouldn't say that. There are still problems I encounter every cast I pull. In fact, that's all I seem to ever post about on my Instagram.
I do think the casts they wound up using to make the hilts were the best of lot they had, out of however many they made in the time they had to do it. The latest date for the saber designs settled on is implied to be Feb 5th, and the shooting memo says the props needed to be sent out by March 20th-22nd; that's about a month and a half to figure something out for the stunts. You can find Youtube videos online of people forging stuff the way they would've done back then, from making their own sand and cutting up scrap cast alu parts from cars and planes, and all that takes precious time and skill. It's still a mystery how they managed to get such consistency but, then again, only one V2 exists and the V3 sports defects that many of mine also have.
Making green sand, and having a fresh batch for every time you cast that isn't too wet or too dry to avoid it crumbling or exploding, that is skill that not everyone knows. To produce the cleanest casts possible, that is another thing entirely using re-melted scrap casting alu; it loses purity each time you mix and melt it with other bits. I've documented before the use of casting alu over the use of something like extruded alu and there's a significant difference in either. I'll be the first to say, and will continue to say, that I honestly don't know why or how they did it.
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Yea, I'm sorry if I misrepresented you. I only speak from what I know, which isn't much about casting lol
Definitely different sabers. this is what I see:
1)
2) V2?
3)
I went through this frame by frame too finally! I definitely see what people are saying. it's my opinion we are seeing blades with collars sitting ontop of bearings, right up against the emitter face... at least for the shots where we see the blade spin in detail. The high ones.. not sure. I see the blades bend too, multiple times.
It was cool seeing the motorized graflex in action. here's the MPP clamp on the barbican
Definitely different sabers. this is what I see:
1)
2) V2?
3)
I went through this frame by frame too finally! I definitely see what people are saying. it's my opinion we are seeing blades with collars sitting ontop of bearings, right up against the emitter face... at least for the shots where we see the blade spin in detail. The high ones.. not sure. I see the blades bend too, multiple times.
It was cool seeing the motorized graflex in action. here's the MPP clamp on the barbican
LOM
Well-Known Member
Just found this quote I had saved in a different doc I had written up regarding the cloak collapsing:
www.elstreestudios.co.uk
I believe they recently acquired this interesting piece.
www.thepropgallery.com
A raw cast aluminum R2 arm, for anyone who wants to compare it to the raw cast sabers.
An exact quote from one of the original ANH R2 engineers regarding these can be found here:
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Star Wars secrets revealed - Elstree Studios
Paul Welsh explains how special effects teams made lightsabers glow and Obi-Wan Kanobi disappear. I have been sorting out some old paperwork and came across some interviews I did back in that hot summer of 1976. One was with John Stears who was responsible for the special production and...
Ahhhhh - I haven't studied the real parts of Obi as intensively... Wasn't aware the windvane doesn't really lock, so that could explain that detail.
The R2 details are quite interesting! For anyone curious about the construction of the original R2 units, the OpenR2 group on facebook (and related sites) is a goldmine.2) Thank you for the R2 details, that's something I'm very unaware of. I don't know if the sabers were considered basic casts.. it took Brian a LOT of work to make the pulls he is doing now, which are arguably better than the cast that propsore sold
I believe they recently acquired this interesting piece.
The Prop Gallery | R2-D2 utility arm
<p style="text-align: justify;">An original R2-D2 utility arm created for the production of the 1977 science fiction picture Star Wars, the first instalment in the classic franchise directed by George Lucas.</p> <p style="text-align: justify;">R2-D2 is t
www.thepropgallery.com
An exact quote from one of the original ANH R2 engineers regarding these can be found here:
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Fair point, I'm not even certain it was available in a tape variety at this time? I think most of the references to blade material from the time are "fabric."
Wow, that first pic does look quite skinny! But the death saber blade is interesting... When it's on the ground it has a nasty bend in it, I wonder if that is wood that snapped?
Something was definitely up with the shroud - Prowse holds it so awkwardly. The guts having problems staying in makes sense, considering the location of the switch hole being so high up on the hilt compared to the Luke stunt. I haven't actually seen any evidence there was even 1 set screw on the shroud during ANH. I imagine there is a set screw under the shroud that holds the guts in similar to the Luke stunt though.
Still, your experimentation on the casting has provide some great insight into the process of what it could've been like!
Possibly, but I'd argue the V3 is a worse casting than the two blanks we know of that are in private collections? The seam line and casting gunk is substantial compared to the other blanks.
The thing is the stunts don't have to be ready by March 22nd, they have to be ready by April 20th for the Cantina! Tunisia filming begins in March and stunt sabers are not necessary then. So that gives them technically about 2 months to come up with something, with a couple weeks of being unsupervised, as they finish filming in Tunisia on April 4th. I'd guess they'd be finished, or almost finished by the time Elstree filming begins on April 7th - maybe even later considering how rushed of a job they seem to be and how it seems they tinkered with blades throughout filming.
"Tall collar" is what I've been calling this one! Agreed 100%
I concur!
I think the first pic in #3 is the V2, but in the other images though the emitter plate looks quite wide to me. Though it could just be the V2 before getting dinged up, not sure.
Nice catch on the clamp! I'm certain there's another BTS shot that shows it decently clear.. I'll have to look for it
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Thanks!
That first pic in #3 is very, very un-finished. The wide emitter plate AND the wide, stubby main emitter section are reminiscent of the V3 moreso than the V2. The V2 emitter was cleaned up to the point the main section got skinnier too. The tall collar one also has this chunky attribute, although the emitter plate itself is almost gone lol
I think the death saber fall picture is the reflection of the emitter plate. I forgot to mention that, when you watch that video its theemitter flashing at the camera, blending in with the blade.
That first pic in #3 is very, very un-finished. The wide emitter plate AND the wide, stubby main emitter section are reminiscent of the V3 moreso than the V2. The V2 emitter was cleaned up to the point the main section got skinnier too. The tall collar one also has this chunky attribute, although the emitter plate itself is almost gone lol
I think the death saber fall picture is the reflection of the emitter plate. I forgot to mention that, when you watch that video its theemitter flashing at the camera, blending in with the blade.
The R2 details are quite interesting! For anyone curious about the construction of the original R2 units, the OpenR2 group on facebook (and related sites) is a goldmine.
I believe they recently acquired this interesting piece.
A raw cast aluminum R2 arm, for anyone who wants to compare it to the raw cast sabers.The Prop Gallery | R2-D2 utility arm
<p style="text-align: justify;">An original R2-D2 utility arm created for the production of the 1977 science fiction picture Star Wars, the first instalment in the classic franchise directed by George Lucas.</p> <p style="text-align: justify;">R2-D2 is t
An exact quote from one of the original ANH R2 engineers regarding these can be found here:
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Now, this is interesting. That arm is very clean in comparison to any of the casts seen in public and the V3 (still some pockmarking I noticed on the surface and underside of the arm). The folks who built R2---and this is just from anecdotes I've heard recounted---were out-of-work aerospace engineers after some union quarrels, I think, within the airplane industry. Those guys definitely knew what they were doing. The original R2 domes (not the lamp shade that inspired them) were spun in-house by them from what I've heard.
Would it have bogged production down even moreso had a request come in last minute to the R2 team to cast the bucks too after just finishing work on the R2? They would've had the know how to make the casts and they obviously made a master for the R2 arms; were they responsible for the casts? A part of me thinks it's plausible, but another part of me thinks that request going up the chain of supervisors and producers---especially after all the work done for R2---Could it be? Are there any invoices outside the memos? If someone could track down the invoices from Don Post on how many masks they made for the production of Halloween, surely this must exist somewhere.
I completely forgot that; the cantina and hut interiors were in the UK. That time would be useful in making these. Even rushing, you'd still manage a cast a day. At my quickest, it takes me 3-5 days, or even a week, just to fully machine one of the V2 hilts.
Speaking of, I found out there was a line of bench lathes popular throughout workshops in the 70's and 80's in the UK. The Emco Compact lathes, Models 5-8:
I'm not saying the hilts were machined on these, but I am saying these were available and they were everywhere then, and a lot of what I've tinkered with my hilts to correspond with choices the original prop team made, like removing the emitter from the casts to fit the lathe and find its center; or the need for the small stump on the casts--- you'd only really have to make those choices to work on a bench lathe and not a full sized lathe. Just sayin.'
Fun bit of trivia: These things are insanely well built. Many models then are still in great working order today. In fact, ILM'er Jon Knoll has one and used it to build components for his motion-control rig that was used to film the ship model in The Mandalorian.
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LOM
Well-Known Member
Ah! I think you mentioned this before in another thread, I remember that bit now about the bodies being a bit more on the un-lathed side of things from what we can see.
Definitely! It's strangely clean, which is why in the first post I mentioned that I doubt they were from the same source, but possibly inspired in process by.
They were engineers - not sure if aerospace in particular - there is a writeup on the OpenR2 website I believe about either C&L or Peteric being an engineering company that just happened to be located close enough to production to do work, that prior had never done film work despite being located extremely close to Elstree. They really did do some impressive work on R2.
Neil Anderson specifically said the casting for the R2 arms was outsourced to another professional company after providing them with a drawing, not a buck from his recollection. (likely traced from provided blueprints. Mr. Anderson did not recall exactly what they did, so they've been trying to figure it out) At the very least, they didn't do casting in house. It's possible Stears' SPFX team contacted that company later, but again, with how wonky casts like the V3 are, I don't think they were a pro job.
I asked them about that second bit. If I recall, unfortunately the employee who took care of all the invoices/contracts for R2 passed a number of years ago, and all of the paperwork was tossed out then.
Take a peek behind these guys!
I forgot if this pic is from C&L, Peteric, or Stears' workshop... But at least here it looks like they had some good machines.
Though, I could see the SPFX team working with those smaller machines. That is some good reasoning for the stub and choosing to chop off the emitter!
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That's definitely a bench lathe sat on a table behind them!
Coldblackice
New Member
This OP/thread should be part of Wikipedia. Well done OP and others.
Twisty
New Member
This is a fantastic post! So much great information! Thanks so much for the time and effort you put into your research and for sharing it with usLast Updated: July 10th, 2022
In an effort to make this more of a better reference for people, I've decided to put my personal anecdotes and musings into spoiler tags to separate them from the meat of the content.
This post serves as a timeline and general quick-reference guide to information that I had mostly collected in 2020-2021. With that said, I haven't done much research in the past 8 months, but I haven't heard of any major breakthroughs in information. Maybe there is something buried on the facebook forums, but I really dislike searching through there to be honest, lol.
I wanted to share this because I find that it helped me understand what might or might not have gone on during production, and puts to rest a lot of myths while also creating a lot of new questions. In the end, I just wanted to put this out there. Personally in the past few years - I ran through every single possible research avenue I could muster. Eventually, I was hit with the fact that there simply are no available answers public, or private. Someone out there certainly knows more, maybe there are some locked away documents or images in the archive, but as of what I was able to uncover - this is the bulk of it. Personally I find the best way to understand the sabers of ANH is as a whole, it was a process during the film. Researching and looking at it as process that evolved throughout filming I think is one of the best ways to look at these props.
In this post, there are a lot of references to production memos and documents, if you would like to check them out for yourself, see here in this google drive. There are also a ton of reference photos I've collected during that time. There are also a lot of people I quote, most of these are from posts available buried in threads on theRPF, and I haven't gotten the time to add source links, but I will at some point.
Note: This post primarily focuses on the stunt sabers of ANH. I touch on hero props, but the hero's tend to have their own wonderful threads. What happens to these props beyond ANH is another story as well, and might be worth exploring in the future.
This post is much inspired by SethS's amazing lightsaber guide, which can be found below, and would probably be good to read before diving into this stuff.
Lightsaber Guidebook – WannaWanga
wannawanga.com
Original Introduction:
Anyhow...Hi everyone!
Spurred by some of the recent discussions on the “”prototype”” MPP and Graflex that were recently auctioned, I wanted to share some information I collected and put into a timeline. I've found it helps me understand what might or might not have gone on during production.
I've been gathering info on and off on this for the past six months or so now... This is more of an informative post that is going to bounce around a LOT because I organized this a bit oddly in my doc. I kind of just want to put this out here as some handy information because bits and pieces in here are relevant to quite a few other saber discussions I think. Also, I've tried to credit and link much of the relevant bits as well.
Also, I mention a lot of production memos and stuff without inserting the original documents. If you want to check them for yourself, you can view most of what I mentioned here in this google drive. In addition you will find a lot of BTS photos I've collected, and there is also a doc in there that is just a wall of Roger Christian interviews because I was curious to see how his story evolved, I've pulled most of my quotes from him from there.
I should also say - I can't 100% confirm if I've got this right at all of course in the theory department, so if you see something that doesn't make sense, feel free to poke holes in it. I've generally tried to leave most of this more factual so that others can draw their own conclusions or theories.
Also, I am continually updating this first post with quick small changes and more info as a heads up.
Early Ralph McQuarrie Concepts
Per: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1975
February 14-15, 1975
Original McQuarrie Concepts:
View attachment 1482236
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhereInterestingly, two of these concepts on the sketch to the left appear to match the hilts wielded in "Laser Duel" above, and seem to match two of the concepts presented on the January 19th meeting.
Early Production, “Elstree Testing” Early 1976
January 14th – First Special Effects Tests Completed
“The Wizards at Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," R2-D2 and illuminated control boards.”
Source: The Making of Star Wars TimeLine : 1976
January 16th – Notes of Meeting Held In Conference Room On January 1976.
* Monday query refers to the January 19th meeting.
January 16th – Notes Pertaining to HOD’s [Head of Directors] Meeting held at EMI Studios at 5 p.m. on Friday, January 16th, 1976.
The document additionally notes:
January 19th – Meeting between George Lucas, Roger Christian, and John Stears
View attachment 1472715View attachment 1472066
Images Courtesy of the Original Prop Blog and an RPF Thread somewhereI find it more than likely these are the hilt parts that were discussed on this day:
Photos are dated as circa January 14, 1976 – January 25, 1976.
Source: Star Wars “Original Prototype Lightsabers from 1976 Meeting”
We see:
- 1 Safety Torch
- 1 Diving Torch
- 1 Unknown black handle (?)
- 1 Unknown skinny handle (?)
- 1 Hales No. 3 Mk 1 Grenade
- 4 Balance Pipes in an assembly
Because of Christians' account that the Stears' prototypes were all the torch/flashlight style handles, he probably brought the grenade and balance pipe assembly to the meeting.
Roger Christian additional quotes on initial SPFX prototypes:
January 20th – George Lucas and Gil Taylor Discuss Filming
Interesting tidbit, as in the film there are actually 4 shots with a saber. It seems that the Falcon training scene was a late addition?
January 23rd – Special Effects Tests of Laser Swords. (Rescheduled from 21st)
Industrial Light and Magic complete effects tests for "laser swords," and Jawa eyes.
View attachment 1472718 View attachment 1472719
We see that many of these hilts are based on the McQuarrie Jousting design, but what I found interesting is that Mr. Bunker's quote regarding intentionally breaking blades possibly seems to be this hilt above? As I've not seen any other hilt or blade that seems like it was supposed to break.
Types of Laser Swords tested on this day:
Note: Clapperboards indicate a T-Stop of T2.8 – this should give us a ballpark about what F-stop to use in a camera for a proper front projection effect for those with reflective tape blades.
- X2 “Lances” - dish downwards, designed to break.
- X1 ''Sword,” likely to fit the description of “Excalibur”
- X1 “Motorized” test hilt - 3-sided blade(?)
- X2 “Epee” Fencing Swords
- X1 Small Sword
- X1 Small sword with guard
Below is the first motorized test saber:
View attachment 1472720
[Unknown Date], Early Production – Alec Guinness, David Prowse, George Lucas, Gary Kurtz, and Peter Diamond meet on an Elstree stage(?) to rehearse with early lightsabers.
View attachment 1472721
[Images likely taken on Gary Kurtz personal camera]
Here we can see the early “lance” hilt that was apparently designed to break being used in practice as George Lucas and stunt-coordinator Peter Diamond watch. They appear to have flipped the dish above the handle, likely to test how that would look in camera per the discussion on January 16th. Also, this design would give an effect very reminiscent of McQuarrie’s original paintings with the bulge of light above the emitter of the hilt.
Shipping Notes
As of Feb 5th
This document indicates that hero hilts have likely been selected as of February 5th. Personnel Charter planned to depart March 20-22.
As of Feb 10th
Alternate dates the hilts may have been shipped out on indicated above, because of the emphasis on props.
It is therefore very likely that the Hero Luke and Obi-Wan hilt designs were settled on between January 19th and February 5th.
My Theory:
Production was clearly running late. Props and special effects items were approved in very short times before filming. That much is apparent from the production memos.
The only noted special effects test for sabers took place on January 23rd (after being rescheduled from the 21st), and those aren't anything close to the final product save for the motorized one. So when did they make the stunt sabers? Obviously the hero hilts have to be approved before you can make correct stunt sabers, so there is now about a two week window for heroes to be selected, so stunt saber development probably began shortly after, probably before the personnel charter was set to leave to Tunisia with the hero hilts. But, with the tight schedule it seems there was almost no time for Stears' to work on continual development of these stunt sabers with key pieces falling behind schedule.
That brings us to this quote...
If I had to guess, the stunt sabers were not finished before filming began. Bunker quotes a "Bert Hamilton" as the guy in charge of developing the stunt sabers. Why isn't it Stears? Could it be because Stears was in Tunisia operating R2 during their construction, and the remaining SPFX team at Elstree scrounged up the materials, possibly out of whatever they could because of a nonexistent budget as all the key players are in Tunisia filming? Just with the goal in mind to have the sabers ready for when they returned as the cantina and hut sequences were filmed fairly early on if I recall. It would also explain the lack of documentation of the development too.
Though, it's probable that Stears' was responsible for coming up with the spinning effect/the final electronic set up because he is the one handling the motorized saber in the test footage.
I personally think the SPFX Obi hilts began to be worked on pretty early, but I'm not exactly sure what variation its based on. I feel that the angles of the cubes on the Tunisia version are closer to the buck, but the groove below the cubes on the Chronicles is a match for one of the details on the buck. (I admit I am not an expert in real parts Obis at all, so I might've botched my description)
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
The windvane positioning also does not match the chronicles build at all, the part above the neck and below the windvane is quite long and the Tunisia version looks closer to it from the blurry pic we have:
[For the sake of more important images later, this image has been removed]
Alternatively there could have been two heroes and 1 was kept for reference for the SPFX department?
I recall reading that Stears’ supplied some of his own technicians to assist the engineers in the development of R2, which means to me, it seems like they may have had influence on metal casting Obi’s after seeing the cast metal flippers. Perhaps now that sabers are their primary focus now that everyone is in Tunisia, they got an idea to use the same method to make hilts.
However, the OpenR2 project noted that professionals cast the R2 arms after supplying a company with a 'drawing' not a buck. I have many doubts about the stunt hilts being professionally cast based on the seamlines and wonkyness.
One other thing to note: production documents mention:
In reference to casting the then named Dia Nogu... Casting metal seems a bit more involved than basic casting. Food for thought.==================================================
FILMING
Filming the Cantina – April 13, 15, 20. 21
Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness film their scene together in the Cantina Set.
View attachment 1472205
Thanks again to dcarty opening his copy of "The Cinema of George Lucas" and looking up the additional filming reports I did not have!
Report No19: Thursday April 15
Sets: Stage Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina
Scene Numbers: 50 PART [Obi-Wan uses his lightsaber in the Cantina]
Scs. Completed Today: 1
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 48sReport No.20: Wednesday, April 14
Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94; Stage 6-INT. Cantina
Scene Numbers: AA53 RETAKE, 50 PART
Scs. Completed Today: -
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 10sReport No. 21: Thursday, April 15
Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina
Scene Numbers: 50 PART
Scs. Completed Today: -
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 30s.
Daily Status: 1 Day BehindReport No.22: Tuesday, April 20
Sets: Stage 6-INT. Cantina
Scene Numbers: ZB50 (EXTRA SCENE) [Luke and Obi-Wan meet Han Solo]; 50 PART (EXTRA SCENE) [Han and Greedo]
Scs. Completed Today: 1
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 00s.Report No.21: Wednesday, April 21
Sets: Stage 3-INT. Docking Bay 94 (retake); Stage 6-INT. Cantina
Scene Numbers: AA53, etc.
Scs. Completed Today: 1
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 22s.
Daily Status: 1 Day Behind
Call sheet for April 20th notes:
Note: No front projection effect was used according to the call sheet. (Might not be the correct day.)
3 Known Takes:
On Take 3 – Guinness flips the switch and turns off the motor after the strike.
- Film Take
- Star Wars Black and White “Rough Cut”
- Color Footage on YT (211, take 3, “Guide Track”)
The V2 appears to be used in the cantina sequence. The blade appears to be extra-long compared to subsequent uses of the V2(?)
View attachment 1472074
Filming Ben’s “Cave” – April 23, 26
The scene inside of Obi-Wan's home was filmed at this time. After filming inside of Obi-Wan's home was completed, George Lucas and John Barry did a quick walk through of the set the crew would be filming on the following Monday - the Death Star corridor.
View attachment 1473483
Report No. 25: Friday, April 23
Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave
Scene Numbers: 42 PART [Obi-Wan views Leia’s message]
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 4m 00s.Report No. 26: Monday, April 26
Sets: Stage 7-INT. Ben Kenobi’s Cave; Stage 2-INT. Death Star
Scenes Numbers: 42 COMP,; 111 [Vader espies Kenobi]
Screen Time Taken To-Day 57s.((Is there a day 3 Report Missing? I've seen reference to a 3rd day of filming but I did not see a report for this.))
Day 1
View attachment 1472077
Image: Kurtz-Joiner archive I believe via Star Wars Aficionado.
You can also catch a glimpse of the front projection set up being used for filming in front of the camera!
I believe this day of filming included Kenobi giving Skywalker the saber, but Guinness demands rewrites of his dialogue so they probably rewrite it then and there, and film a few more scenes before the end of the day because of the 4m screen time taken. View attachment 1472724
(I believe the woman in the first pic is Ann Skinner, she has a continuity script binder(?) clearly in another photo I've seen but apparently didn't save.
I believe the SPFX lightsaber malfunctioned on Day 1 substantially.. So....
Day 2
Likely consisted of just waving the SPFX hilt around and getting that right ignition right. I don't have a lot of evidence for this, but some pictures seem to indicate that they mainly focused on filming the hilt for awhile on this day. Since Anthony Daniels isn't on set on this day, you can kind of spot when images might be from day 2.
View attachment 1474640
Image courtesy of: Scottjua
April 26th – Note: AFTER filming the Cave
Alec Guinness is interviewed by the Sunday Times about his character in the film.
*reference to the bubble strip on the hero saber most likely. Thought this was a cool mention.
Filming the Falcon – May 10
View attachment 1472083 View attachment 1472084
* Footage of the 2nd image somewhere online, I didn't save the link it's a blooper and the helmet falls off.
Report No. 35: Friday, May 7
Sets: Stage 9-INT. Pirate Starship Hallway
Scene Numbers: 67 PART [Luke training with seeker; hologram board game]
Scs. Completed Today: -
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 2m 50s.
Call Sheet for Monday, May 10th, 1976 Notes:
Note: This sequence was also filmed using a front projection effect per call sheet.
Note: This is possibly the day when some Chronicle photos were taken. Note the call for “all principles” continuity weapons.
Motorized Graflex stunt appears to use a similar blade to that used in the Hut. (To me anyways)
On Filming the Duel – May 27, 28; June 1
View attachment 1472085
Note: Reshoots potentially did take place for the “cut down” scene at later times besides these 3 primary filming days. *Reshoots possibly on June 3rd(?)*
Report No. 49: Thursday May 27
Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay
Scene Numbers: 117 PART [Obi-Wan is cut down]
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 29sReport No. 50: Friday, May 28
Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star - Main Forward Bay
Scene Numbers: 117 Part
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 16sReport No. 51: Tuesday, June 1
Sets: Stage 3-INT. Death Star- Main Docking Bay
Scene Numbers: 116 PART [Vader to Obi-Wan: "We meet again at last"]
Screen Time Taken To-Day: 1m 39s
Day 1:
View attachment 1473484View attachment 1473485
Entering more theory/speculation again...
The primary hilts used in filming on this day are the V2 and the Barbican. However, this day would show some unusual features of the Barbican as well what seems to be another unmotorized stand-in stunt for Obi Wan.
Primary Hilt (V2): Secondary Stand-in Hilt(?):
View attachment 1472087 View attachment 1472086
Barbican:
The age old question, "Was the Barbican wired on set?" Yep!
View attachment 1472088View attachment 1472089
I've seen a high resolution unpainted version of the image on the left, in front of the control panel you can see a wire hanging down with a red connector (jack plug perhaps? hmm...) Also, please note that on the image on the left, the shroud of the Barbican being white is not from the airbrush. Although I so wish this was evidence for a 2nd hilt, looking at the 2nd image, it probably just caught the studio light.
Day 2:
View attachment 1596737
I *think* the images above are from day 2 but I'm not 100% sure.
I'm fairly certain most of the Day 2 consists of takes of Vader striking Obi-Wan down and the use of the collapsible skeleton constructed by Stears’ team. In addition, the scenes of Vader cornering Kenobi in the main hangar bay is filmed as well.
The Barbican is still used for filming on this day.
I believe they filmed the "cloak collapsing" scene something like 6 times. We have evidence of a couple at the very least:
View attachment 1472090 View attachment 1472094
Skeleton does not fully collapse in the Making of Star Wars film. (Interestingly in the documentary, you see one of the guys on set handling a special effects blade as well. Footage:
View attachment 1596625Possibly one take
View attachment 1472093 Note the different cloak location and saber blade along the wall.
And the film take is different than all of these I think.
2 different takes based on hood position... 2 different hilts? First pic looks a bit narrower, and is wired. The 2nd image has that solid black emitter with specks on the edge that we can see in a film still I think.
View attachment 1472102View attachment 1472096
2nd image can clearly be seen in the film:
View attachment 1472103
Day 3, the Hallway Sequence:
View attachment 1472105
Here's an interesting hilt on this day of filming. Minimal edge visible wear on emitter plate. Potentially a “tall collar” on the blade. Visible throughout most of the hallway sequence. And makes it in film:
View attachment 1472106 View attachment 1472107 View attachment 1472108 View attachment 1472109
What appears to be a second hilt on this day, identifiable due to wear pattern on emitter faceplate. (V2?)
View attachment 1472110 View attachment 1472111 View attachment 1472112 View attachment 1472113
What went wrong with the Barbican?
Jon Bunker noted that he did not recall what went wrong with the Barbican, but that it might've had something to do with hiding the wires. I believe Mr. Alinger or the Rinzler book backs that up, and I think those images show that might've been the problem.
After what was likely some initial test shots and photos for lighting, the decision to cut the wires on the Barbican was made. Only those two photos I've found show a wired Barbican. So, it must have been a fairly early decision on set to remove the motorized effect, and I can totally see it being done because they couldn't hide the wires now.
Oddly, Luke’s motorized Graflex serves on day 3, acting as Vader’s stunt hilt...
View attachment 1472114
However, the Barbican also makes an appearance on this day! It is visible in the film as well as on some of the BTS footage as seen below. It is identifiable due to the way Prowse holds it. So why what caused the need for the Graflex stunt to take its place in one scene or take? The Barbican was on set, was it suddenly unable to take a blade? I don’t know.
View attachment 1472115
(teecrooz has a gif of this footage below)
On Lightsaber Construction
Who Built them?
I wanted to preface this section with credit to those who were involved in the construction of the sabers on ANH.
Roger Christian is almost certainly responsible for the discovery of the Graflex and was involved in the creation of the hero hilts as mentioned in the timeline, but his interviews have expanded far beyond that occasionally and neglect to mention other key players involved in this process.
Here are the known people involved in the construction of the SPFX sabers:
- John Stears: He and his shop were hired for the mechanical effects in ANH. Notably produced R2 (I would highly recommend checking out the OpenR2 project for a deep dive into this), the initial 3PO sculpt, the land speeder, and of course, was heavily involved in the creation of the lightsaber as mentioned earlier.
- Bert Hamilton[-Smith]: A member of Stears' SPFX team, credited with being the main person responsible for the construction of the SPFX lightsabers by Jon Bunker.
- Jon Bunker: A member of Stears' SPFX team tasked with producing the lightsabers, who has generously shared a lot of information previously.
Regarding the Motorized Obi-Wan Sabers:
The Wooden Buck.
View attachment 1596629
Recommended Reading:
Wooden master and stunt casts
Was searching through photos and came across these.its the wooden master they used to cast the v2-3 and a cast of the v2-3 in aluminum. What I found interesting was the whole on the windvane. Was it drilled after it was casted or was it just a air bubble in the casting?also unfree the emitter...www.therpf.com
The wooden buck appears to be turned from some scrap wood based on measurements straight off the Obi-Wan Hero hilt. BRRogers has discovered a possible answer as to why the buck is so close to the hero prop in size - it might have been made on a duplicator lathe, which accounts for some of the marks left on the buck. As seen in Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread.
The wooden buck today is more or less the same size as the Obi-Wan hero prop.
It is unknown who produced it or why the Obi-Wan stunts were produced this way. There were 4 carpenters on the film, but it's likely it was produced by Stears' SPFX shop.
The buck and a raw cast appeared on eBay in the early 2000s, supposedly sold by someone who worked on A New Hope and was in the department that turned it. It did not sell at the time, and later made its way into the hands of the people of Propstore by 2011 and was part of a touring exhibition that appeared at SDCC in 2011 and 2012(?). The pair of sabers were auctioned in 2019 by Propstore and now reside in a private collection.
Lot #720 - STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE (1977) - Obi-Wan Kenobi's (Alec Guinness) First Turned Prototype Lightsaber
An Obi-Wan Kenobi first-turned wooden prototype lightsaber, from the production of George Lucas' Star Wars: A New Hope. The lightsaber, conceptualised by George Lucas and constructed by John Stears and Roger Christian, was made from camera flash handles, battery packs and other hardware. The...ukm.propstoreauction.com
Lot #721 - STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE (1977) - Obi-Wan Kenobi's (Alec Guinness) First Cast Aluminium Lightsaber
An Obi-Wan Kenobi (Alec Guinness) first-cast aluminium lightsaber from George Lucas' Star Wars: A New Hope.ukm.propstoreauction.com
The emitter of the buck is almost certainly a separate piece held on by a rod or dowel down the center. The pommel end in theory may be a separate piece which would account for how we get to the metal cast "stumps," but from those that have been near it, it's somewhat indiscernible as-is.
On Casting the Metal Sabers.
View attachment 1596628
Recommended Reading:
Wooden master and stunt casts
Was searching through photos and came across these.its the wooden master they used to cast the v2-3 and a cast of the v2-3 in aluminum. What I found interesting was the whole on the windvane. Was it drilled after it was casted or was it just a air bubble in the casting?also unfree the emitter...Lineage Foundry Cast ANH Kenobi Stunt Hilts
EDIT 08/15/2018: Considering I've gone quite deep into the rabbit hole since posting this thread, and learning quite a lot along the way, I'd thought I'd update this but keep the original posts for posterity sake. EDIT 05/15/2020: Go to Post #111 for the latest, and currently best version...Halliwax's weird V3 theory
2021 Update I originally started this thread back in 2018, its main goal was to prove that some photos which we thought at the time was the v2 was actually the v3. Years have gone by, with new discoveries being made almost every month. There is a lot of new data, discoveries and photos that...
This post is a must-read: Halliwax's weird V3 theory -> contains information on the composition of the stunt sabers.
Internal Construction of the Motorized Stunts:
Recommended Reading:
View attachment 1596392ANH Motorised stunt Saber experiments (& blades) Part 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS (added 1.12.19): Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker. Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc...
Bunker's recollection of the internal workings of the Obi-Wan sabers, as shared by Vadermania.
Obi-Wan Emitter Notes:
Does the Emitter Spin?
NOT visible in ANH footage.
Conclusion: Emitters did not intentionally spin in ANH, though likely 2 separate parts connected. Perhaps the connections might have come loose (glued together?) in subsequent films as emitters were cast separately, per buck break.
Obi-Wan Pommels
The pommel on the V3 was previously loose, allowing it to rotate between exhibits. It has been noted that it felt like the booster screw is the only thing holding the pommel on.
Regarding the V2
There is so much information on the V2 out there, that it would be remiss not to give links for additional reading.
MUST READ. Seriously, start at page 1 and read.
Luke ROTJ V2 lightsaber
I have a replica ROTJ hero version, but I have a growing fascination with the Luke V2 saber. If you own a replica of this saber, I'd love to see it. What is the best version out there currently? Is there any substance to the rumour that MR will produce a Luke V2 next year?
Additional recommended readings:
New Luke ROTJ v2 3d model comparison and analysis
Hello everyone, Over the past few months, I've been revising my Luke V2 model and I think I've just about got it bang on. I asked Roy last week to work his 3d magic and wip up some comparison photos from me and he has done an amazing job. I submit them here for your consideration. Comments are...DaveP's Luke RotJ V2 Research/Development Thread 2021
Intro: Hello everyone. As some of you may know, I’ve been working away on my own version of the V2 for some time now behind the scenes. Well, it’s finally time to unveil the project and where I am in the development process. This thread will serve as a development thread to start with, where I...Luke V2 lever
I've been looking for parts that could be possibilities for the V2s long clamp lever. i saw these bicycle seat post quick release clamps and thought they looked similar in functionality and size. These ones don't look like the lever but could be a vintage model of these that dose. Not sure if...Original V2 switch
In order to not detract from the current V2 run thread - lets talk about the V2's original condition! Toggle switches? it looks more straight and thin than cone shaped to me - - - Updated - - - actually, I'm wrong, it IS the classical cone shaped toggle switch Red guitar toggle switches are...Official Luke RoTJ V2 weigh in!!
I figured starting this thread for easier searching in the future I posted a weigh in of all the different V2's I own. I do not own every version out there, if anyone has a version of the V2 that isn't listed below, please take a picture of it on a kitchen scale and post them here. I'll update...
There are a million awesome threads on the V2. There is such a wealth of information out there.
The V2 is the only Obi-Wan stunt saber we can definitively say is seen on-screen for most of the duel, and the cantina sequence.
V2 History, Post filming for reference:
Early 2000s(?)
[Acquired by Brandon Alinger, founder of theRPF - presumably in this time period]
- Dubbed the "V2" by PoSW
2015:
2017:
- Featured at Star Wars Celebration: Anaheim in "Star Wars Original Props and Costumes” Discussion Panel"
- Star Wars Celebration Anaheim 2015: “Star Wars Original Props and Costumes” Discussion Panel
- Featured in Mark Hamill's Pop Culture Quest
Regarding the V3 (and Stunt Obi-Wan Sabers in general)
Recommended Reading:
Halliwax's weird V3 theory
2021 Update I originally started this thread back in 2018, its main goal was to prove that some photos which we thought at the time was the v2 was actually the v3. Years have gone by, with new discoveries being made almost every month. There is a lot of new data, discoveries and photos that...
It is impossible to confirm if the V3 is present in ANH on screen. There is no documentation of the inventory of stunts made for ANH, there appears to have been no documentation during filming, and with the refurbishing that the V3 has received post ANH for both ESB/RotJ dueling, and touring, it would be near impossible to identify it with complete certainty.
The reason the Official Like RotJ V2 Weigh-In is important:
Lightsaber hitchhikes aboard shuttle
abcnews.go.com
NASA Launches Lightsaber With Space Shuttle
Luke Skywalker's lightsaber from "Return of the Jedi" fulfills its cosmic destiny by being launched into space with space shuttle Discovery as part of the 30th anniversary of "Star Wars."www.popularmechanics.com
I filed a FOIA with NASA for more information, unfortunately there was nothing else besides this lovely inventory line:
View attachment 1596738
History of the V3, post filming years for reference:
1993:
1995:
- Refurbished in the Archives for tour in Japan and to be featured in a book
1996/7:
- Appears in the book: "From Star Wars to Indiana Jones: The Best of the Lucasfilm Archives"
- Appears in "The Art of Star Wars" exhibit in the Yerba Buena Center in San Francisco
1998:
- Pictures taken in the Archives that now appear in the Original Prop Blogs' article
2000/1:
- Featured in the book: "Star Wars: The Visual Dictionary"
2005:
- Went on tour as part of "The Art of Star Wars," at locations including Barbican Art Gallery(?) and the Helsinki City Art Museum(?)
2007:
- Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
- Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
2009:
- Launched on STS-120 (Which also delivered the Harmony module to the ISS!) and taken into space, subsequently kept at the Houston Space Center for a time. *NASA inventory number was added at this time
2010:
- Still in possession of NASA(?) as it appeared in "The Films of George Lucas" at the Johnson Space Center
Recent Whereabouts:
- In early 2010, appears to be at the Main House at Skywalker Ranch
- Later appears at a museum in Sacramento
- Supposedly kept in the Main House at Skywalker Ranch (as of 2015)
Regarding Other Obi-Wan Sabers
The actual amount of Obi-Wan stunt sabers is anyone's guess. In Halliwax's Weird V3 Theory thread there are discussions on the Death Saber, the Hoth Hammer Saber, and the Warehouse Stunt.
Regarding the Barbican:
Recommended Reading:
View attachment 1482237ANH Vader Stunt Lightsaber
Edits: 12/22 The Barbican was used heavily in ESB as a fencing stunt. The motor was taken out and it was drilled out for a solid core. Screws and T track were put on In Jedi it was molded for Vaders severed hand and rotocast. The emitter shroud which was square for 2 movies, was finally cut...
(As the hilt is today)
The “Barbican” was initially planned to be Vader’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real MPP clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track (Plus a small 1.5” piece used to replicate the MPP bulb release button.), an open-hole end cap, and square aluminum shroud reminiscent of an MPP.
Although the prop has been refinished today after years of filming in RotJ and ESB, we can still gather some details about it. Based on the size of the switch hole, it is likely the Barbican utilized a toggle switch similar to the V2, as a lamp push button as seen on the motorized Graflex requires a larger hole to be drilled, as seen above.
Note that due to the switch location, the motor in the real Barbican would be seated remarkably high up. I believe this is likely why some issues were encountered. The heavier HMP/Antenna based blades probably dragged on the motor, the clashes likely loosened the core as well, assuming it was held with a set screw under the shroud. Note that the shroud was likely not secured as to why Prowse holds it in such weird ways to stop it from falling off. It’s likely this was intentionally designed to allow you to access the screws that would allow you to change blades and accounts for the images where the shroud is attached on reverse.
The reason it was ultimately ditched in favor of the Graflex stunt on the final day of dueling is somewhat a mystery because the Barbican was present on day 3 of filming. Perhaps by then the other Barbicans had completely failed, forcing production to utilize Luke’s stunt saber.
View attachment 1472088
Also, in this image here, you can also make out what appears to be a jack-plug connector, as described by Bunker on his notes and diagrams. I personally have many questions regarding this image.
Barbican History, post filming:
2005:
2008:
- Was exhibited at Star Wars Celebration III
- Appears in "Dressing a Galaxy: The Costumes of Star Wars" exhibit at the FIDM museum in San Francisco
Recent Whereabouts:
- Resin saber and severed hand were in Bob Burn's collection at least till then
- Contained in the Lucasfilm archives
Regarding the Motorized Graflex:
Recommended Reading:
View attachment 1474640ANH Motorised stunt Saber experiments (& blades) Part 1
TABLE OF CONTENTS (added 1.12.19): Page 1 : Mk1b core early bearings/motors - Important new primary info from Vadermania / Jon Bunker. Page 2 : My MK1b 1st schematic - Jon B’s sketch schematic - Rpm 1st estimates - MK2 core made (ball-race bearing) - 400 & 900 rpm motors & some tests inc...
The motorized Graflex was Luke Skywalker’s motorized stunt hilt. Construction consisted of an aluminum tube, a real graflex clamp, an Exactra bubble strip, 7 T-Track, a “thin-knurl” Folmer Graflex button, a “beer tab,” a Graflex Glass eye, and an end cap seemingly scavenged from camera parts.
Later, this saber would go on to serve as Vader’s stunt saber on the final day of the duel with either a painted or taped off shroud – wires cut as well. It was then subsequently utilized for promotional photos in its post-dueling state.
It is again possible multiple of these were made. Note in ESB, there appears to be a stunt featuring a similar long lever as seen on the V2. Unfortunately, after filming ESB it appears this saber was walked off set and hasn’t surfaced since.
View attachment 1482232
The wires utilized “power pole” connectors in white and red specifically. There appear to have been some difficulties getting the saber setup while filming the hut sequence.
Post filming the OT, there are no surviving examples of motorized Graflexes.
On Motorization:
How many motorized sabers were built?
Evidence is inconclusive on the actual number of sabers built, and is hotly debated topic.
With regards to motors....
*Dykstra was likely not involved with the construction of the SPFX Sabers as far as we know, unlikely that this information is accurate.
Note: No “Marklin” motor match found yet. A “Marklin Metaal” motor was a close match to these specs, however it was in a rectangular case and made in the early 80s, not mid-70s.
On Blades
Recommended Reading:
The ANH LightSaber Blade Reference Thread
The OT stunt lightsaber blades research thread
So...any new ideas about the origins of the OT stunt lightsaber blades after reading through the new STW archives book from Paul Duncan? I have my problems in believing that the ANH stunt blades were square from the emitter to the tip. My gut feeling is that they were round at the base and...(This section includes many quotes taken from Mouse Vader's reference thread above, including quotes shared by Vadermania, scarf man)Is Darth Vader's saber blade painted (ANH) & blade flexing.
I can't find anything in the forum on this (doesn't mean it's not there) but while researching something else I noticed there's a short sequence in which smoke or dust comes off Darth Vader's light saber (look for cursor arrow). Check out the youtube vid at full speed & it's quite obvious (from...
View attachment 1482221
The first blades...
View attachment 1472719
View attachment 1482222
The First Filming Blades:
The Duel Filming Blades:
==================
Addendum:
Shipping notes expanded based on documents for reference:Plan as of Jan 16th
Feb 28 for Speeder (3 weeks before location shooting, 1 week before last truck to leave)
Feb 2 Shipment 1 leave expected
Plan as of Jan 23rd
March 22 Deadline
Feb 14 – Speeder body ready
(Idea of air freighter for speeder and late shipments entertained)
Jan 30 Load Shipment 1 (3, upped to 4 total trucks) <Construction Materials
Feb 2 Shipment 1 Departure
Shipment 1 contains Dinosaur
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Anticipated
Shipment 2 anticipated to have “props on board.” But construction gets priority if gear doesn’t fit on first shipment
Noted last viable date for departures by truck:
March 5 Load
March 8 Departure
Plan as of Feb 5th
Feb 5 Shipment 2 Load (3 trucks)
Feb 8 Shipment 2 Departure
March 16 - Air freighter settled on, a plan is requested for what to bring on plane and what to leave behind in Tunisia
“Both Speeders to go on freighter. Also 10 robots and other essentials such as laser swords may be fitted into personal charter.”
Plan as of Feb 10th
Feb 20 shipment, “One Subercube” (Construction, SP.FX. and Props anticipated)
3 Speeders
1 Life-Pod
2 Sections of “Christmas Tree”
2 [Bins?] of large fuelage
1 [Boner?] (SP.FX.)
Smalls & Bits from Props Dept.
March 5 shipment, “One Road Track”
Animals
Speeder Shells (3 or 4)
RIG (SP.FX.) For Suspending Speeder (5 ton)
SP.FX. “Prop” Box
SP.FX. Ancillary Equipment
SP.FX. Tools
SP.FX. Fog Machine
Plan as of Feb 16, (Loading Air freighter)
Feb 17, Customs
Feb 18, Flight
Speeder 1
All Robots (7?)
[____] of speeder shells
SP.FX. Smalls (Remote Control Units, etc.)
Plan as of Feb 13th
Feb 20 Shipment 3 Departure
March 5 Shipment 4 Departure
March 15 Air Freighter Flight Departure
March 20 Personnel Charter
On Rotoscoping:Interviews with Nelson Shin (Rotoscope artist on ANH)SoundOdd Stories/Quotes:You can find many Roger Christian quotes in the google drive folder. Here are a few other odd stories that don't exactly make sense, as these two were involved in the US side of Special Effects at ILM.
It's interesting to note what Dykstra says, as the filtering of the light seems to refer to the trials on the 23rd.
==========================In conclusion, there are small adjustments I need to make to this post, adding more links to relevant discussions and where some of this information was drawn from. I wish I could add more images, but there is a 50 file limit, and I can not add any more, unfortunately.
Initially, this thread and the information here was collected to dispel a lot of rumors and further our research as a community. I personally wanted to get to the bottom of a lot of the why's. Maybe I got to the bottom of some, but I've ran into so many dead ends that I literally exhausted basically every lead I had.
Anyhow, there is need for a special thanks to a number of people I bothered in PMs regarding this like Halliwax, Vadermania, BRRogers, thd9791, and a few other people who graciously took time to share information and help me look over all this.
This post is still a WIP, I am not happy with some of the formatting in a few areas, but it's the best I can do right now. I'd also like to add an ESB/RotJ section to the addendum, but anyhow. I'll clean it up sometime. I wish I had more to add, but 'till next time, I hope this gets your mind turning on some things.
I have some more stuff floating around my head regarding blades and the Obi's specifically but that is probably better served in their respective threads (and because I just reached the 50 file limit and can't add any more pics lol.)
There wasn't really a specific aim to this thread, just some loose points all around. I just wanted to lay everything out in a timeline and address a few things while I was at it. I hope this was informative and might help other discussions regarding specific aspects of these sabers at the very least. Perhaps this thread can serve as a place to discuss all those random small theories poking around in one's mind.
And special thanks to the people who I bothered in PMs discussing this stuff at length with haha.
edit: fixing some of the image that came out small for some reason. And added some more quick words in a few parts.
Don't know if this is the proper place to document this, but after going on a deep dive on the button for the motorized Luke for my eethan build, this is what I've found. First, I collection of screen caps where the button is at least partially visible:
Then, while discussing with eethan, I was watching Theater of Blood starring Vincent Price, and this popped up:
I knew I'd seen bakelite push buttons before, but couldn't remember where. But if they're using a bunch of them on this random prop, they must have been readily available in the 70s. This lead me down a rabbit hole, where I found a British company named CastelCo used to make push button power switches for all kinds of lamps and other electronics. There have been various designs over the years (the classic Anita power button is actually very similar to if not actually being a model of switch they made from the 30s onward), but two really common ones in the 50s-70s that were used on lots of designer lamps.
The lamps on the left are from Planet lights, the Studio K model, a small-batch Australian designer lamp that is well known in MCM design circles. The lamp on the right is from a company called Pifco Lamps, who made and make a bunch of different kinds of lamps. That's one of their 70s desktop models, but they used the switches on desktop lamps, angle-poise lamps, all kinds of lamps. They also used them without the screw on collar in "torpedo" switches, the long inline power cable switches. The point is, they were everywhere.
In fact, they still make them in the UK. You can buy them on the UK Amazon site with mini-Anita style collars. https://amzn.eu/d/7id9du8
Not surprisingly, the switch eethan provides in the kits is a meant to be a replacement switch for lamp repairs. The collars are interchangeable. The collar that came on the first vintage one I bought was cracked beyond repair, which isn't surprising with bakelite.
I have another on order. I also modeled the era-appropriate collars as to use as a replacement for the vintage lamps I bought.
Is this definitely what was used? There's no way of telling. But they were ubiquitous at the time, and perfect for what the props team was trying to accomplish.
Then, while discussing with eethan, I was watching Theater of Blood starring Vincent Price, and this popped up:
I knew I'd seen bakelite push buttons before, but couldn't remember where. But if they're using a bunch of them on this random prop, they must have been readily available in the 70s. This lead me down a rabbit hole, where I found a British company named CastelCo used to make push button power switches for all kinds of lamps and other electronics. There have been various designs over the years (the classic Anita power button is actually very similar to if not actually being a model of switch they made from the 30s onward), but two really common ones in the 50s-70s that were used on lots of designer lamps.
The lamps on the left are from Planet lights, the Studio K model, a small-batch Australian designer lamp that is well known in MCM design circles. The lamp on the right is from a company called Pifco Lamps, who made and make a bunch of different kinds of lamps. That's one of their 70s desktop models, but they used the switches on desktop lamps, angle-poise lamps, all kinds of lamps. They also used them without the screw on collar in "torpedo" switches, the long inline power cable switches. The point is, they were everywhere.
In fact, they still make them in the UK. You can buy them on the UK Amazon site with mini-Anita style collars. https://amzn.eu/d/7id9du8
Not surprisingly, the switch eethan provides in the kits is a meant to be a replacement switch for lamp repairs. The collars are interchangeable. The collar that came on the first vintage one I bought was cracked beyond repair, which isn't surprising with bakelite.
I have another on order. I also modeled the era-appropriate collars as to use as a replacement for the vintage lamps I bought.
Is this definitely what was used? There's no way of telling. But they were ubiquitous at the time, and perfect for what the props team was trying to accomplish.
Attachments
PadawanLoLo
Member
This is so cool, what an amazing feeling to source the actual piece of material for the prop. Forever a legend!
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