Contests

[Art Andrews]

Didn't think this was quite worthy of a post in the announcements forum and since we are also open to suggestions from the membership, I thought we might as well post it here.

As you have probably noticed, we are slowly starting to have more and more contests on the forum. In the past, contests were handled almost entirely by the membership with only enough staff oversite to make sure things didn't get ugly.

As you have probably guessed, we are taking a slightly different approach.

One of my goals is to try to funnel everything we can back into the site and back to the members to help grow this community.

With that in mind, we want to see a fairly steady stream of contests, somewhat spaced out so they don't all come at once, and funded (when possible) either by the site itself or by sponsors of the site (as Weta has done a number of times now!). Why are we doing this? Because we don't want people to have to beg for donations every time a contest rolls around. A second goal is not only for us to fund the prizes for the contest but for the prizes to come from within the community. This way we have a win-win-win scenario. The site wins because contests help build and strengthen the community. The members win because they get the chance to win cool prizes. Those who supply the prizes win, because the site is BUYING the prizes from them (hopefully not at full price, but still at a profit to the seller).

There are a couple of things that come into play in regard to timing. First, as we mentioned, we don't want too many contests stacking up. That doesn't mean we can only have one a month (we have two running concurrently right now) but it does mean we can't have them all start at the same time. Additionally, as a site, while we are paying the bills, we aren't exactly "rolling in it" so we have to spread out the contests just a little to ensure we have enough funds to provide for the contest prizes.

Finally, we are trying to coordinate these with the members who want to run the contests so we can provide things like promotion and also polls for voting at the end (so the member isn't left trying to count up all the posts). We have no interest what-so-ever in actually running these contests ourselves as we have too many other things to do, but we do want to facilitate and help where possible to make sure the contests are a success.

 

[Bizarro Lois]

So will you just post when you are planning a contest, with a Want to Buy announcement, listing what kind of prizes you'd be interested in purchasing? Or should members contact staff with offers? I'm kicking myself for not offering a custom figure or two as a prize for the Halloween costume contest, so I'd be willing to contribute one or two from time to time.

 

[Art Andrews]

Honestly, we are not sure exactly how to approach prizez and believe it will probably be a bit of both. Honestly, part of what we are trying to do is SPONSOR the contest (and providing funding for prizes) but not get too involved in the process itself. I'd love to see us eventually have something of a standardized way of getting prizes, but I assume it will change a bit from contest to contest.

 

[Klwl]

Why not make polls for possible contests and have members of the forums vote on which they would like to see come to light that way if someone has a potential contest they won't get upset or take a tantrum in things don't pan out? Maybe make a structure based on voting that when a Contest is voted for and agreed upon they would run at a certain time of the month and end by a certain time? that way there is no way for multiple (or a set number) won't overlap one another.
Know what I mean jellybean?

Democracy FTW!

 

[Mercury]

Is it true that non-members are able to vote in these contests?

 

[EvilRocketeer]

Is it true that non-members are able to vote in these contests?

Yes it is true. Some members have expressed their concerns with this however it has been noted that in future costume contests....Non members will have the privilege of voting..Even though I see the concern of letting non-members vote, I agree with the mods. The way I see it is it promotes the site and brings in more traffic to the site which will promote this site and our "sponsors". Also, it would limit people just setting up accounts to make one vote and not contribute to the site what so ever after voting...Does it ruin the integrity of the contest? Yes and No. In the end, will the winner win base on his or her costume or win base on how many contacts and friends they have.....For instance, several members expressed their concern with the Male Costume contest section....and how 700 votes magically appeared over night for one person...

Art posted this in another thread...http://www.therpf.com/f24/rpf-first-annual-halloween-contest-winners-100496/index2.html

Thanks for your comments and critiques of how the contest was run. As I mentioned in one of the other threads, we have learned a lot from it and will certainly be making changes next year. I can tell you up front that we will likely NOT limit the voting to just members (although we will make it clear from the get go that ANYONE can vote) but per Icysis' suggestion, we probably WILL limit the ability to comment in the voting thread as some of the comments made in the women's thread were pretty tasteless and unthoughtful. We have a whole year to work on it and planning is starting NOW so thank you for your thoughts and congrats again to the winners.

 

[Mercury]

Yes it is true. Some members have expressed their concerns with this however it has been noted that in future costume contests....Non members will have the privilege of voting..Even though I see the concern of letting non-members vote, I agree with the mods. The way I see it is it promotes the site and brings in more traffic to the site which will promote this site and our "sponsors". Also, it would limit people just setting up accounts to make one vote and not contribute to the site what so ever after voting...Does it ruin the integrity of the contest? Yes and No. In the end, will the winner win base on his or her costume or win base on how many contacts and friends they have.....For instance, several members expressed their concern with the Male Costume contest section....and how 700 votes magically appeared over night for one person...

Art posted this in another thread...http://www.therpf.com/f24/rpf-first-annual-halloween-contest-winners-100496/index2.html

All it will do is increase traffic, not entice people to register as they no longer have to. I suppose it will help on ad revenue. As far as affecting the integrity, how can it not? All one has to do is post a link to the polls and say vote for me, # whatever. Posted on sites unrelated to props and where no-one will know that the anonymity of the entrant has broken the rules by asking for votes from people who have no interest or knowledge on the subject matter. The contest is no longer valid IMHO. I don't understand this idea at all. Will we next have guest posting enabled? Why require registration at all if It'll increase traffic and exposure since that seems to be the main goal.

 

[Contec]

Reminds me of the Roddenberry contest a few years back that people was able to cheat by deleting the cookies... And then the Rod.com said that if people discovered how to cheat they would not stop it.


This suck....

 

[Art Andrews]

Yes it is true. Some members have expressed their concerns with this however it has been noted that in future costume contests....Non members will have the privilege of voting..Even though I see the concern of letting non-members vote, I agree with the mods. The way I see it is it promotes the site and brings in more traffic to the site which will promote this site and our "sponsors". Also, it would limit people just setting up accounts to make one vote and not contribute to the site what so ever after voting...Does it ruin the integrity of the contest? Yes and No. In the end, will the winner win base on his or her costume or win base on how many contacts and friends they have.....For instance, several members expressed their concern with the Male Costume contest section....and how 700 votes magically appeared over night for one person...

ER, a very good summation including the good and the bad.

All it will do is increase traffic, not entice people to register as they no longer have to. I suppose it will help on ad revenue.

Just so we are clear, the immediate traffic brought in by contest voting is not the purpose and goal as it is ultimately minimal and singular in nature. Additionally, the benefit to ad revenue is virtually non-existent.

As far as affecting the integrity, how can it not? All one has to do is post a link to the polls and say vote for me, # whatever. Posted on sites unrelated to props and where no-one will know that the anonymity of the entrant has broken the rules by asking for votes from people who have no interest or knowledge on the subject matter. The contest is no longer valid IMHO. I don't understand this idea at all.

This is the typical approach for online contests and while it certainly has its drawbacks, it does have its advantages, some of which were pointed out by ER, above.

If you look in the OT, you often see members asking people to vote for them in a contest being put on by another site... which as with most sites, allows members and non-members alike to vote. Some people are posting as if this is a unique thing happening here at the RPF, but it is the internet norm for contests.

Will we next have guest posting enabled? Why require registration at all if It'll increase traffic and exposure since that seems to be the main goal.

Not sure how you are making this leap in logic but to answer your question, it is HIGHLY unlikely that we would ever allow guest posting. It wouldn't serve any purpose for the site or its members and you are incorrect in thinking it would increase either traffic or exposure.

 

[Mercury]

ER, a very good summation including the good and the bad.

Just so we are clear, the immediate traffic brought in by contest voting is not the purpose and goal as it is ultimately minimal and singular in nature. Additionally, the benefit to ad revenue is virtually non-existent.

"The way I see it is it promotes the site and brings in more traffic to the site which will promote this site and our "sponsors"." quoted from ER's post, which you say was a very good summarization. I thought this was pretty much what I said in my post as increased traffic and exposure and is the only logical reason i can see for having a public voting option. Other than the ad revenue which while may be minimul is obvioulsy something the RPF wants or they wouldn't have them to begin with.

This is the typical approach for online contests and while it certainly has its drawbacks, it does have its advantages, some of which were pointed out by ER, above.

Again the only thing that ER posted that could be perceived as some kind of advantage was the above quoted excerpt from his post by me.

If you look in the OT, you often see members asking people to vote for them in a contest being put on by another site... which as with most sites, allows members and non-members alike to vote. Some people are posting as if this is a unique thing happening here at the RPF, but it is the internet norm for contests.

Yes, and it just proves the point of how a legitimate contest like the ones we have had in the past was the only way to go to be fair that they were judged correctly. As far as the norm, I would respectfully disagree as there is no proof to that fact. Some sites do that, others do not, there is no way to claim one way is more the norm than the other.

Not sure how you are making this leap in logic but to answer your question, it is HIGHLY unlikely that we would ever allow guest posting. It wouldn't serve any purpose for the site or its members and you are incorrect in thinking it would increase either traffic or exposure.

It is a leap, but not as far as I would have thought before this new direction. Again it goes directly back to ER's quoted excerpt on promoting the site and sponsors or in my own words, increased traffic and exposure.

All of the above is just my personal opinion of course and I have no say in any direction you decide to take the RPF, however I did want to express my view on how myself and apparently others see how this course brings in to question the integrity of the contests. I can't and will not speak for others but I know I won't feel comfortable entering a contest only to see another entry get 700 votes overnight and not think something fishy was going on.

Finally, it is not my intent to sow any discontent, but we as a community should have our opinions heard if nothing else.

 

[Art Andrews]

Mercury,

I wasn't attacking you or singling you out, but the way in which you responded seemed to indicate you feel the purpose for allowing non-members to vote was devious or underhanded in nature. If that was not you intent, then you have my apology for reading it wrong.

In regard to your commnets about ad revenue, it is ad revenue that keeps this site running and allows us to provide support for events like the contest. It isn't that we "want" ad revenue, but that we need it in order to continue to provide these things freely to our members. And again, in looking at the stats for ad revenue during the voting for the costume contest, we had no more revenue than usual. If increased ad revenue was out purpose for opening up the voting (which it was not) it would have been a spectacular failure.

In regard to whether more contests are private or public, I would argue that most large sites who hold contests, hold them publicly, not privately. This isn't to say that there aren't plenty of places that hold private contests. We all know there are, but it isn't the dominating trend among progressive sites.

On a final note, there is nothing wrong with you sharing your view and we don't take is as you trying sow discontent. We understand not everyone will agree with all of our decisions and while we would encourage those who choose to disagree to do it respectfully (and you did) we also encourage members who have a differing opinion to state their opinions and reasons why. We are not infallible and sometimes a member brings up a point that makes us change our mind on a subject.

 

[rollerboi]

In regard to whether more contests are private or public, I would argue that most large sites who hold contests, hold them publicly, not privately. This isn't to say that there aren't plenty of places that hold private contests. We all know there are, but it isn't the dominating trend among progressive sites.

We are not Facebook, and I hope to god we never become Facebook. Or any other "progressive" social networking site. Most of the places that hold contests are doing so for the publicity, sponsorship, traffic, and ad revenue.

If that is not our goal, then why are we trying to emulate them? All I know is the RPF I have known and loved has always been a pretty closely knit community. We see and appreciate things differently from the mass populace.

If we're going to have contests open to the anonymous public, we dilute the sense of appreciation that we have for ourselves and the eye for quality. I guarantee that people will lose interest in entering contests if it's just going to turn into a popularity contest. That's not what we're about here, and I sincerely hope it's not the direction we're going.

 

[Mercury]

Mercury,

I wasn't attacking you or singling you out, but the way in which you responded seemed to indicate you feel the purpose for allowing non-members to vote was devious or underhanded in nature. If that was not you intent, then you have my apology for reading it wrong.

That was not my intent, I assure you. I have every confidence that the choice to allow public voting was NOT devious or underhanded in nature. I firmly believe your intentions to be strictly as you say. I do, however, think it can and most assuredly will be used by some in just that manner whether intentionally or not. For a person to win they will have to actively promote their entry to outsiders and while their entry will be anonymous to most board members, it probably won't be the case to outsiders. It'll almost be an election instead of a contest. Who can generate the most votes from outside sources. I wouldn't mind so much if it was up to the member who starts and runs the contest to decide on whether the voting is members only or open to the public but I still think it changes it from whose is the best entry to who has the most connections they can get to vote.

Regardless, I've had my say and appreciate the reply.

 

[Organic Mechanic]

...I do, however, think it can and most assuredly will be used by some in just that manner whether intentionally or not. For a person to win they will have to actively promote their entry to outsiders and while their entry will be anonymous to most board members, it probably won't be the case to outsiders. It'll almost be an election instead of a contest. Who can generate the most votes from outside sources. I wouldn't mind so much if it was up to the member who starts and runs the contest to decide on whether the voting is members only or open to the public but I still think it changes it from whose is the best entry to who has the most connections they can get to vote.

Perfectly stated. The contests here are, in my opinion (whatever that's worth), meant to be based on artistry and skill. By allowing outside voting on contests with prizes, it ceases to be such.

We'll take the upcoming Lightsaber contest as an example. My local Dollar Tree sells a "Space Sword" ATM. There is no way I could be prevented from buying one, and submitting it, then brute force voting myself into first place. How is that fair to the other entrants who used the artistry, skill, and time that the RPF is all about to craft their entry?

Extreme example, yes, but not so far fetched. Prizes add a "greed" factor for most people, and by having the voting process completely un-regulated, the door is opened for abuse based on such. It completely changes the nature of the contest. It's no longer about doing the best replica etc., it becomes about who networks best, or worse, who is more adept at web-trickery.

For me, if the contests here aren't going to be about creativity/artistry/skill, then I will not be taking part in them. Simply because they will be completely pointless. Frankly, if the contest is about who can get the most votes in an open, unregulated poll, I assure you I could not be beaten. I'm an out of work (injury) webmaster. I have the time, and the web savvy to win a stupid "Most Random Votes" contest any day.:unsure


I have said my piece, and I thank you for your time. I know that you (the administration) will do what you feel is best for this community.