Noob Needs Electronics Advice (Sound and LEDs) Please Help

[Mannie Bothans]

Help. My brain is about to explode.

I have absolutely ZERO knowledge about electronics.

I have been going down deeeep rabit-holes trying to learn, but at each turn, I run into not knowing what I didn't know.

Here's what I am trying to do.

I don't have a 3D printer, but I bought a prop replica from someone who printed (and partially assembled) it.

As I put it together, I want to add lights and sound-- and ah, there's the rub.

It looks like it was printed with a box for two AAA batteries, and there are sketches that call for three red DIP LEDs with three resistors, 1 purple DIP LED with no resistor, 2 white LEDs with no resistors, and a blue DIP LED with no resistor on one button switch, and one white DIP LED with no resistor on its own switch.

The printed parts appear to be made to accomodate the two AAAs and DIP LEDs.

However... and this is where I get myself into trouble frequently... I was wondering if I could modify the plans (to "improve" upon them).

My first step is to get rid of the one white LED and it's own switch. There's enough room for me to replace that with an actual flashlight for MUCH better results. I will probably also scrap the three red LEDs, too, since they were kinda tacky anyway. Easy peasy.

I can also probably modify the battery chamber to possibly fit AAs instead of AAAs for better capacity. Maybe even a C, but no larger.

So, that leaves me with 1 purple (or full spectrum or UV) LED, 2 white LEDs, and 1 blue LED with on one button switch. [Plus, I wanna add sound.] I read that SMDs are brighter than DIPs... so, i start looking into that, and end up down a worm hole of lumens, charge pumps, LiPos, all kinds of confusion.

The sound was my own idea and not in any schematic. (Unfortunately, I know even less about sound chips, mini speakers, amps, and such than I do about LEDs.) The sound is triggered by the same switch that activates the purple, blue, and two white LEDs.

This is what I want the sound to do:

When I push the button, I want all LEDs to come on simultaneously, not flash, and go off when I release the button.

At the same time the lights come on, I need it to play a sound clip in its entirety (not stop when I release the button like the lights do), LOUDLY (like make everyone around stop and know something's going on, LOUD). But only ever one piece of audio, the exact same one each time. One switch, playing the same sound clip every time. No motion sensing, no accelerometer, nothing fancy like that. It just has to be small enough to fit inside the prop, and the prop wasn't designed for sound, so I am going to have to be creative about how I fit that in, but I'm sure I can if I can keep it all small enough. I will not need to access the board to ever change the sound it plays ever.

The LEDs wont stay on draining the batery all the time, they will just be on while the trigger is pulled-- but If I can't use super bright LEDs because of the battery drain, so be it. It is more important that everything stays internal to this space rifle.

The maximum area I can clear for a sound board, amp, and speaker is a nook that is about 4cm x 8cm.

Can somebody please walk me through exactly what to buy (and how to connect it) to achieve the end result described above?

 

[Jintosh]

This could be useful to you. Look up how to use it on YouTube.

 

[Jintosh]

Triggers are 0 through 9 and you only need one trigger, because you only need one sound. It has an amp built in, so you need to wire a speaker to the output + L -

You're going to need more power than two AA or two AAAs. So, 3 AAA might do it.

I'm not going to walk you through it. YouTube and Google are your friends. Use "Audio FX" as a search term. You can find existing examples of how to do this. A push button will be wired to trigger pin 1 on the board, and that same push button will be wired to activate your LEDs. You need resistors on your LEDs.

 

[laellee]

You are going to need more room I think...

But first, I would ditch all of the separate resistors, that's a lot of unneeded legwork. Instead, go get yourself LEDs that are-prewired with the resistors. You can get them on Ebay set for 5v/6v/9v/12v, pick up whatever matches your battery power. I wire mine parallel so if one ever cooks, the rest are fine. Then wire your LEDs to your battery with a momentary switch at the trigger to activate only when depressed.

If the volume of the clip wasn't a big deal, you can get pre-made voice modules (the kind they use for 'talking' greeting cards) that allow you to record and then play messages via button. Problem is, the recording quality is not great, and they are not very audible. So...

...For the sound, I would follow Jintosh 's advice 100%. You are going to need an audio board with an amp so people can actually hear it well. There are a ton of tutorials on youtube for Adafruit stuff to figure out the wiring and operation, but I would also try and find some clips with this module in use so you can actually hear how audible (loud) it is. It'll be better than a greeting card module, but that doesn't mean it is capable of playing loud enough to be heard across a busy room.

 

[Mannie Bothans]

Triggers are 0 through 9 and you only need one trigger, because you only need one sound. It has an amp built in, so you need to wire a speaker to the output + L -

You're going to need more power than two AA or two AAAs. So, 3 AAA might do it.

I'm not going to walk you through it. YouTube and Google are your friends. Use "Audio FX" as a search term. You can find existing examples of how to do this. A push button will be wired to trigger pin 1 on the board, and that same push button will be wired to activate your LEDs. You need resistors on your LEDs.

THANKS, Jintosh

That Adafruit looks ideal. I think I can create other spaces within the prop for more or larger batteries.

Now I just need to figure out:

A) What the ideal number and type of batteries would be (to power both this little sound card and the DIP LEDs.

Is there any way to replace the DIP LEDs with brighter SMD LEDs? [And if so, what would be the ideal number and type of batteries then (and would that much juice overheat the Adafruit)?]

and

B) What speaker will make the most of this little board with its 2W amp.

Is a 2W Amp the most this size will tolerate? [And if I can go bigger with the amplifier, what would that mean for question A above?]

 

[Mannie Bothans]

You are going to need more room I think...

But first, I would ditch all of the separate resistors, that's a lot of unneeded legwork. Instead, go get yourself LEDs that are-prewired with the resistors. You can get them on Ebay set for 5v/6v/9v/12v, pick up whatever matches your battery power. I wire mine parallel so if one ever cooks, the rest are fine. Then wire your LEDs to your battery with a momentary switch at the trigger to activate only when depressed.

If the volume of the clip wasn't a big deal, you can get pre-made voice modules (the kind they use for 'talking' greeting cards) that allow you to record and then play messages via button. Problem is, the recording quality is not great, and they are not very audible. So...

...For the sound, I would follow Jintosh 's advice 100%. You are going to need an audio board with an amp so people can actually hear it well. There are a ton of tutorials on youtube for Adafruit stuff to figure out the wiring and operation, but I would also try and find some clips with this module in use so you can actually hear how audible (loud) it is. It'll be better than a greeting card module, but that doesn't mean it is capable of playing loud enough to be heard across a busy room.

Thanks laellee

You are talking about DIP LEDs, not SMD LEDs, correct?

I think I can create other spaces within the prop for more or larger batteries. It is a Type III Star Trek Phaser, so surely I can drill out space that wasn't in the original design and print.

I looked at those all-in-one greeting card things, but you are absolutely correct-- I want this to be a loud as possible!

Now I just need to figure out:

A) What the ideal number and type of batteries would be (to power both this little sound card and the LEDs).

Is there any way to not use DIP LEDs and go with with brighter SMD LEDs? [And if so, what would be the ideal number and type of batteries then (and would that much juice overheat the Adafruit)?]

and

B) What speaker will make the most of this little board with its 2W amp.

Is a 2W Amp the most this size will tolerate? [And if I can go bigger with the amplifier, what would that mean for question A above?]

 

[laellee]

To answer your questions

A) If you get LEDs with pre-wired resistors, the battery SIZE isn't going to matter as much as the voltage. The battery power you have needs to match what the prewired LEDs resistors are set for, so if you've got LED's prewired for 9 volts, you want to supply 9 volts of power. Let's say you use a standard 9 volt battery, you could power 5 LEDs constantly for perhaps 20 hours, or 30 LEDs for a couple of hours (it all depends on the LEDs, colors, a bunch of other nonsense). The SIZE (and corresponding MaH of the battery) decides how long it can power all of those LEDs for.

The point is battery VOLTAGE needs to match the resistors on your LEDs for them to light properly, and a battery with more storage (Milliamp-hours) will run everything longer.

-SMDs can be bought pre-wired as well, but it comes down to the voltage requirements each type has and how many LEDs/SMDs you are using.

B- You have to look at each board's specs to see what they will accept for power, it'll tell you what the max is.

I think you should be able to run everything you want (including an amped speaker) off of one 9 volt battery. You mentioned the sound and light is only triggered when the switch is hit, so there is no reason you couldn't get hours of use off one battery if you aren't holding the trigger down the the whole time.

 

[Jintosh]

Thanks laellee

You are talking about DIP LEDs, not SMD LEDs, correct?

I think I can create other spaces within the prop for more or larger batteries. It is a Type III Star Trek Phaser, so surely I can drill out space that wasn't in the original design and print.

I looked at those all-in-one greeting card things, but you are absolutely correct-- I want this to be a loud as possible!

Now I just need to figure out:

A) What the ideal number and type of batteries would be (to power both this little sound card and the LEDs).

Is there any way to not use DIP LEDs and go with with brighter SMD LEDs? [And if so, what would be the ideal number and type of batteries then (and would that much juice overheat the Adafruit)?]

and

B) What speaker will make the most of this little board with its 2W amp.

Is a 2W Amp the most this size will tolerate? [And if I can go bigger with the amplifier, what would that mean for question A above?]

If you go with a 9v battery as suggested, you should get 9v compatible LED's. (with already attached resisters sounds good)

You will need a 9v to 5v dc to dc "step down" voltage converter to power your 5v "audio FX" card. (see attached pic)
Hook the positive and negative from battery/switch to input on "step down adapter".
Find "adafruit audio FX" manual and hook the two wires from the out of the "step down adapter" to the correct pins on audio FX card.

 

[neophyl]

A bigger amp wont really help you. With small handheld devices the limiting factor is the speaker. To get anything really loud you need a bigger speaker. Much bigger than a phaser can fit.
You can get something rated at 2W in the 38mm sort of size but it still wont be truly loud. Even a 50mm visatron K50 speaker (which is a very good speaker) wont fill a room over other sounds and that's too big to fit in a phaser.
Something like https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/CMS-28588N-L152A?qs=81r%2BiQLm7BSpU4jDU%2BQMgA== or https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/CMS-28588N-L152?qs=Jwe3UnxISIbxy2HcCIRFPA== (commonly used in sabres) if you want a round type.

I use a lot of these https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cui-devices/CDS-27208/5355543 in my lasertag pistols (fits inside a B5 PPG when done right Printables ). Designing the right sort of cavity for your speaker can also make a huge difference in volume. Depends on if you have the room inside your shell. Iterative design and test to see what works is handy especially when you are 3d printing things.

Also for power I would be looking at lithium batteries. You can get an AA sized cell (14500) that supplies 3.7-4.2v. That is enough to directly power something like a arduino or similar if you direct feed and bypass the voltage regulator by wiring it directly to something like the 5v rail. It's also enough to power one of the common small amplifier boards if you don't go with a solution with a built in one. There are many designed to run off 5v USB power which is close enough to the power from a single cell lithium setup. There are also many other form factors for 1s lithium cells so explore your options. By matching all the electronics to a single voltage you dont need to mess with voltage steps downs. Much more efficient and efficient is what you want for space constrained devices.

That's also why personally I wouldn't go for prewired LED's as you can match the resistors needed to your voltage. Resistors are small and attaching them inline is very straight forward (use heat shrink over them). That way they don't really take up any extra space.

 

[Mannie Bothans]

So a single 9V battery (with step down for the board and resistors for the LEDs) would be sufficient miliamp hours, even for superbright LEDs?

I am working my way through the Adafruit website and I just learned that 4 ohm speakers will be louder than 8 ohm and powering from 5V will be louder than 3V.

Would a 9V be better than 4 x AA rechargeable batteries, or 3 x AA Alkaline, or a USB battery pack?

 

[Mannie Bothans]

A bigger amp wont really help you. With small handheld devices the limiting factor is the speaker. To get anything really loud you need a bigger speaker. Much bigger than a phaser can fit.
You can get something rated at 2W in the 38mm sort of size but it still wont be truly loud. Even a 50mm visatron K50 speaker (which is a very good speaker) wont fill a room over other sounds and that's too big to fit in a phaser.
Something like https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/CMS-28588N-L152A?qs=81r%2BiQLm7BSpU4jDU%2BQMgA== or https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/CUI-Devices/CMS-28588N-L152?qs=Jwe3UnxISIbxy2HcCIRFPA== (commonly used in sabres) if you want a round type.

I use a lot of these https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cui-devices/CDS-27208/5355543 in my lasertag pistols (fits inside a B5 PPG when done right Printables ). Designing the right sort of cavity for your speaker can also make a huge difference in volume. Depends on if you have the room inside your shell. Iterative design and test to see what works is handy especially when you are 3d printing things.

Also for power I would be looking at lithium batteries. You can get an AA sized cell (14500) that supplies 3.7-4.2v. That is enough to directly power something like a arduino or similar if you direct feed and bypass the voltage regulator by wiring it directly to something like the 5v rail. It's also enough to power one of the common small amplifier boards if you don't go with a solution with a built in one. There are many designed to run off 5v USB power which is close enough to the power from a single cell lithium setup. There are also many other form factors for 1s lithium cells so explore your options. By matching all the electronics to a single voltage you dont need to mess with voltage steps downs. Much more efficient and efficient is what you want for space constrained devices.

That's also why personally I wouldn't go for prewired LED's as you can match the resistors needed to your voltage. Resistors are small and attaching them inline is very straight forward (use heat shrink over them). That way they don't really take up any extra space.

Extremely helpful speaker info. I need to learn more about resistors. Right now I have no way to know what rsistors are needed for what voltage conversions.

 

[neophyl]

Just saw you are talking phaser rifle. In which case fit the largest most powerful speaker you can fit in. Even if its over specced for the amp you will generally get louder output. With a rifle size prop you should be able to fit in just about anything electronics wise in there if you are hollowing it out and 3d printing it.
I'd still look at a purely lithium battery setup with everything designed to run from 4-5v nominal. Add a TP4056 USB C charger and you would never need to open it up again to charge. Just plug in a usbc phone charger.

Without downloading a model for the type 3, just going by eye, I would estimate fitting a 3" speaker would be easy and possibly even a 4" one in there.

 

[3Dsf]

If you’re worried about the nuisance of calculating resistor values you could always use a current limiter. They’re not the cheapest thing, but very flexible.

Lighting models II: LEDs

Welcome to my article on model lighting! I cover different technologies that are useful for people who want to illuminate scale models of various kinds – cars, spaceships, dollhouses, etc. And I don’t mean shining external lights on the model, of course. I’m referring to the technology to make tiny

sites.google.com

 

[Mannie Bothans]

If you’re worried about the nuisance of calculating resistor values you could always use a current limiter. They’re not the cheapest thing, but very flexible.

Lighting models II: LEDs

Welcome to my article on model lighting! I cover different technologies that are useful for people who want to illuminate scale models of various kinds – cars, spaceships, dollhouses, etc. And I don’t mean shining external lights on the model, of course. I’m referring to the technology to make tiny

sites.google.com

Wow, that site is fantastic! Thank you!!

 

[Mannie Bothans]

Just saw you are talking phaser rifle. In which case fit the largest most powerful speaker you can fit in. Even if its over specced for the amp you will generally get louder output. With a rifle size prop you should be able to fit in just about anything electronics wise in there if you are hollowing it out and 3d printing it.
I'd still look at a purely lithium battery setup with everything designed to run from 4-5v nominal. Add a TP4056 USB C charger and you would never need to open it up again to charge. Just plug in a usbc phone charger.

Without downloading a model for the type 3, just going by eye, I would estimate fitting a 3" speaker would be easy and possibly even a 4" one in there.

Thanks! It's great to know a better speaker won't drain more power. Unfortunately, the 101 individual parts were printed by someone else, (I dont own a printer) but I think i can modify what has already been printed to fit larger batteries (though not much room for larger speakers).

I will just try to get the best speakers i can fit.

 

[Corellianexports]

I did something similar with my Buck Rogers blaster. My build thread may be useful to you:

Buck Rogers Season 2 "Hero" Blaster Build

Reference photos: (Screen used from "The Golden Man" episode.) (Used briefly in Battlestar Galactica) Here's the kit: While waiting on my other Buck Rogers blaster to dry, I figured I would start work on this one. I went through a bunch of reference photos but unfortunately, I couldn't...

www.therpf.com

 

[3Dsf]

Wow, that site is fantastic! Thank you!!

No worries. Glad you like it!

 

[Oracle]

If you’re worried about the nuisance of calculating resistor values you could always use a current limiter. They’re not the cheapest thing, but very flexible.

Lighting models II: LEDs

Welcome to my article on model lighting! I cover different technologies that are useful for people who want to illuminate scale models of various kinds – cars, spaceships, dollhouses, etc. And I don’t mean shining external lights on the model, of course. I’m referring to the technology to make tiny

sites.google.com

Oh wow thank you for this link! It's already been such a big help with the little I've read though for both my tricorder and sonic screwdriver builds!