The Abyss Remastered

1080p/i seems to be perfect for display purposes. Any higher, too many flaws become visible. Shooting at 4k+ may be great for footage, but higher resolution than 1080 for display on a small screen doesn't result in pleasant image quality. Display quality should always be adjusted for specific output.
 
Totally missed your post here...but yeah, the Abyss looks really nice.
The Terminator comparison....that both from official sources?
That UHD part looks SO completely washed out. Its one thing to clean up a picture, but to overexspose it in post like that does not look good.
I can't believe Cameron, who is very particular about things like that, could ever let that pass.
That's on me. I changed it to show more details available in the shadows and such. The source file is way more "washed out", one of them "HDR"-files.

It hasn't been officially released in UHD yet.
 
I finally got my copy a couple of weeks ago and it was definitely every bit as good as I remembered it being. I've started to watch the special features and it never ceases to amaze me just how much ground Cameron broke in making this movie. He really pushed the limits of what could be done back then as well as the limits of his cast and crew.

After watching The Abyss again for the first time in I don't how many years, I noticed an oddity that I never realized before. In the opening sequence where the sub first encounters the NTI and the Captain starts chasing it, recklessly, I have to ask, why? It never occurred to me until now but he's in a boomer, a nuclear ballistic missile submarine, his job is to take his boat to its designated patrol area and effectively disappear, his command doesn't even know where he is exactly, just which particular patch of ocean he's assigned to. With that in mind, what the hell was he doing playing tag with what he thinks is a Russian sub? That's the job of an attack boat (an SSN) captain, an SSBN shouldn't be playing tag, they should be playing hide and go seek and never be "it". I suppose that in a way it was a good thing that he was killed in that incident because if he had survived and if I were his boss, I would have fired him for being reckless and endangering the lives of his men and his boat.
 
I finally got my copy a couple of weeks ago and it was definitely every bit as good as I remembered it being. I've started to watch the special features and it never ceases to amaze me just how much ground Cameron broke in making this movie. He really pushed the limits of what could be done back then as well as the limits of his cast and crew.

After watching The Abyss again for the first time in I don't how many years, I noticed an oddity that I never realized before. In the opening sequence where the sub first encounters the NTI and the Captain starts chasing it, recklessly, I have to ask, why? It never occurred to me until now but he's in a boomer, a nuclear ballistic missile submarine, his job is to take his boat to its designated patrol area and effectively disappear, his command doesn't even know where he is exactly, just which particular patch of ocean he's assigned to. With that in mind, what the hell was he doing playing tag with what he thinks is a Russian sub? That's the job of an attack boat (an SSN) captain, an SSBN shouldn't be playing tag, they should be playing hide and go seek and never be "it". I suppose that in a way it was a good thing that he was killed in that incident because if he had survived and if I were his boss, I would have fired him for being reckless and endangering the lives of his men and his boat.
It's primarily because of the time in which the film is set. You have to remember, this is still in a timeframe where the Cold War was on. It was shortly after the film's release (in August) that the Berlin Wall fell (which was in November 1989). Hell, it basically about how the Cold War is pointless (especially with the Special Edition, where Bud's message basically points that out). Coffey, the captain of the sub, Coffey's Superiors... They're all a part of the Cold War, and they see everything as Russian (as pointed out by Lindsay). There have been times where Russians have been scared off by the actions of Americans just showing up, just as much as there have been times where Americans have been scared off by Russians showing up during this period of time, mostly because neither side wanted to escalate the conflict (this is reflected in many other films from that timeframe. In fact, Steve De Jarnatt, when it came to his film Miracle Mile (1989), has said he could have made the film sooner in the 1970s or early 1980s, but every studio that was approached with the script didn't want to have the Americans to be the ones to fire the first shot, which was how it was written in the story. More often than not, in most of the stories, it's often the other side escalating or firing the first start, not the home side). Was the captain reckless? Yes. That's because he was being vigilant, and it's that vigilance that got him and the others on board killed. If there had been no Cold War going on, then he and them would still be alive (as well as Coffey and a large bulk of the Rig's crew would also be alive). It's not the first time that Cameron made a war analogy in his films (I mean, just look at Aliens, which he has flat out stated was inspired by the Vietnam War on more than one occasion).
 
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I call going through an unmapped trench at full speed reckless and idiotic, not vigilant. ;)
To be fair, the NTI cutting off the power is what lead to the crash. So, it wasn't solely on the Captain and his crew. And, from what I recall, it doesn't come off as the sub was going fast, and it was that the sub couldn't turn in time due to the power cutting off and then coming back on (with the only thing going fast was the NTI).

Additional Edit: Wasn't the sub there mapping that trench in the first place? If that's the case, and with the tech on board, wouldn't you move slow to get good and readings for such a thing?
 
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It's primarily because of the time in which the film is set. You have to remember, this is still in a timeframe where the Cold War was on. It was shortly after the film's release (in August) that the Berlin Wall fell (which was in November 1989). Hell, it basically about how the Cold War is pointless (especially with the Special Edition, where Bud's message basically points that out). Coffey, the captain of the sub, Coffey's Superiors... They're all a part of the Cold War, and they see everything as Russian (as pointed out by Lindsay). There have been times where Russians have been scared off by the actions of Americans just showing up, just as much as there have been times where Americans have been scared off by Russians showing up during this period of time, mostly because neither side wanted to escalate the conflict (this is reflected in many other films from that timeframe. In fact, Steve De Jarnatt, when it came to his film Miracle Mile (1989), has said he could have made the film sooner in the 1970s or early 1980s, but every studio that was approached with the script didn't want to have the Americans to be the ones to fire the first shot, which was how it was written in the story. More often than not, in most of the stories, it's often the other side escalating or firing the first start, not the home side). Was the captain reckless? Yes. That's because he was being vigilant, and it's that vigilance that got him and the others on board killed. If there had been no Cold War going on, then he and them would still be alive (as well as Coffey and a large bulk of the Rig's crew would also be alive). It's not the first time that Cameron made a war analogy in his films (I mean, just look at Aliens, which he has flat out stated was inspired by the Vietnam War on more than one occasion).
That's not my point. The sub was an SSBN, a nuclear ballistic missile submarine and if the captain of one encountered what he thought was a Russian submarine he shouldn't and wouldn't go chasing after it, that's not his job. What he would/should do is do his best to not be detected by it, not go chasing after it. Chasing after Russian subs is not what any good boomer captain would do, Cold War or not. If he detected what he thought was a Russian sub near his position what he would and should do is make himself as quiet as possible and make sure that he isn't detected, not go chasing after it.
 
Additional Edit: Wasn't the sub there mapping that trench in the first place? If that's the case, and with the tech on board, wouldn't you move slow to get good and readings for such a thing?
Mapping underwater trenches is not the job for a boomer, maybe an attack sub, but most likely it would be done by surface ships trailing a scanning sonar. The job of a boomer is to remain hidden and hope that they never receive launch orders.
 
That's not my point. The sub was an SSBN, a nuclear ballistic missile submarine and if the captain of one encountered what he thought was a Russian submarine he shouldn't and wouldn't go chasing after it, that's not his job. What he would/should do is do his best to not be detected by it, not go chasing after it. Chasing after Russian subs is not what any good boomer captain would do, Cold War or not. If he detected what he thought was a Russian sub near his position what he would and should do is make himself as quiet as possible and make sure that he isn't detected, not go chasing after it.

Mapping underwater trenches is not the job for a boomer, maybe an attack sub, but most likely it would be done by surface ships trailing a scanning sonar. The job of a boomer is to remain hidden and hope that they never receive launch orders.
Well, considering they were interacting with an NTI and had no idea what it was, the reason they were so close to the trench may have been to avoid being spotted by it if were a danger to the vessel. Keep in mind, they had no clue about who the NTI belonged to or if it posed a threat to their sub. But it doesn't change the fact they weren't going really fast and the cutting off and on the power distracted those on the sub and not realize they were about to hit a wall of rock. So, they were probably going less than the average speed a sub like that was capable of (the mentioning to "back off" may have been to move away from the wall because of how close they were, because it was mentioned that "it's getting too tight in here"). The NTI killing the power was just as much responsible, and unintentionally, for the sub's demise as was the captain and crew were (due to adjusting their position that put them unintentionally on course to impact the wall). They weren't chasing it, they were trying to avoid and observe it. Or at least that's how it came off to me every time I've watched it. I guess the only way to really confirm if the sub was chasing it is with the Orson Scott Card novel adaptation (which unfortunately, I do not have a copy of).
 
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The captain doesn't get a "if only". Kind of like telling the cop after you slid off the road and crashed that if it hadn't been raining your speed would've been safe. If he hadn't been going too fast, they might have been able to recover once the power returned, or not have hit hard enough to breach the hull.
 
The captain doesn't get a "if only". Kind of like telling the cop after you slid off the road and crashed that if it hadn't been raining your speed would've been safe. If he hadn't been going too fast, they might have been able to recover once the power returned, or not have hit hard enough to breach the hull.
As someone who had a moment where I was going 20 miles per hour in a 40 mile an hour zone and hit a patch of water, resulting in my car sliding off the road, I can say your example doesn't justify your stance. If I had gone any faster, I more than likely would have spun out on the road before flipping over. The point is you can crash regardless of if you're going slightly below or even at the speed in which your vehicle is capable of, just as much as you can going flat out. Hell, look at how much damage the Rig suffers later on in the film when it got pulled by crane after it got detached from the Benthic Explorer. It wasn't even going as fast as the sub (certainly not fast enough to cause major human bodily harm from acceleration/deceleration injuries), and it suffered a lot of damage as a result of bumping front first off a what looked to be a small drop-off (seriously, how tall was the drop-off in 1:1 scale to cause the Rig to go front first like that?).

But how much force would it take to cause an impact for a breach in a sub like that? Also, aren't they like a mile and a half under the water? The submarine has a lot of pressure pushing around it, so any kind of of going slightly below or average speed would be enough to cause the damage we see as much as going top speed would. And even if they were chasing it, why were they even bothering to chase something that was going over 50 knots when they knew the sub wouldn't be able to keep up with it? That's like trying to keep up with a rocket on a tricycle.

BUT, back to my point, the only way we'll know if they were trying to observe and avoid or if they were actually chasing it would have to be someone checking out the novelization. Also, if they were indeed chasing it, the novelization would probably have an answer to why they were going fast, if they were, also.
 
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As someone who had a moment where I was going 20 miles per hour in a 40 mile an hour zone and hit a patch of water, resulting in my car sliding off the road, I can say your example doesn't justify your stance. If I had gone any faster, I more than likely would have spun out on the road before flipping over. The point is you can crash regardless of if you're going slightly below or even at the speed in which your vehicle is capable of, just as much as you can going flat out. Hell, look at how much damage the Rig suffers later on in the film when it got pulled by crane after it got detached from the Benthic Explorer. It wasn't even going as fast as the sub (certainly not fast enough to cause major human bodily harm from acceleration/deceleration injuries), and it suffered a lot of damage as a result of bumping front first off a what looked to be a small drop-off (seriously, how tall was the drop-off in 1:1 scale to cause the Rig to go front first like that?).

But how much force would it take to cause an impact for a breach in a sub like that? Also, aren't they like a mile and a half under the water? The submarine has a lot of pressure pushing around it, so any kind of of going slightly below or average speed would be enough to cause the damage we see as much as going top speed would. And even if they were chasing it, why were they even bothering to chase something that was going over 50 knots when they knew the sub wouldn't be able to keep up with it? That's like trying to keep up with a rocket on a tricycle.

BUT, back to my point, the only way we'll know if they were trying to observe and avoid or if they were actually chasing it would have to be someone checking out the novelization. Also, if they were indeed chasing it, the novelization would probably have an answer to why they were going fast, if they were, also.
To me, nothing the sub's skipper did suggested to me that he was trying to hide from the NTI. I'll have to rewatch the beginning sequence again but I seem to recall him going too fast in the trench and his XO warning him about pushing things. Besides, hiding in a trench does nothing for subs, they don't operate using visuals, submerged they rely almost exclusively on sonar so "hiding" in a trench doesn't do anything unless there's a thermocline (a distinct change in the water temperature) or a change in salinity, both of which can hide a sub by either masking or deflecting any sounds they emit.

As far as speed goes, the sub should have been going relatively slow since the faster you go the more mechanical noises you're going to generate. Go too fast too quickly and you might cavitate which manifests itself in the bubbles you commonly see coming from the screws on subs in a lot of shows and movies. That's cavitation and sub drivers don't like that because those bubbles eventually pop and the noise from them popping can be detected. So the sub shouldn't have been going too fast, esp down in an underwater canyon, but it seemed to me that the skipper was pushing his boat too fast.
 
To me, nothing the sub's skipper did suggested to me that he was trying to hide from the NTI. I'll have to rewatch the beginning sequence again but I seem to recall him going too fast in the trench and his XO warning him about pushing things. Besides, hiding in a trench does nothing for subs, they don't operate using visuals, submerged they rely almost exclusively on sonar so "hiding" in a trench doesn't do anything unless there's a thermocline (a distinct change in the water temperature) or a change in salinity, both of which can hide a sub by either masking or deflecting any sounds they emit.

As far as speed goes, the sub should have been going relatively slow since the faster you go the more mechanical noises you're going to generate. Go too fast too quickly and you might cavitate which manifests itself in the bubbles you commonly see coming from the screws on subs in a lot of shows and movies. That's cavitation and sub drivers don't like that because those bubbles eventually pop and the noise from them popping can be detected. So the sub shouldn't have been going too fast, esp down in an underwater canyon, but it seemed to me that the skipper was pushing his boat too fast.
Well, he orders the sub to go down five degrees, which also made it be closer to the wall. But, it seems more like he was being cautious while trying to keep track of the NTI to me every time I've watched it. Also, another thing that's odd, we're told this is a trench, right? You've described it like a canyon. Yet, we only see one side of this canyon with no clear indication of how far away the other side is (seriously, we've only seen one side of this trench and apparently, the other side seems far away that not only do we not see it from where the Rig rests, we also do not see it from where the NTI's "city" is either). So, it seems odd that the sub is hugging one wall and it be described as "getting to tight in here" by going five degrees down when it's noticeable that the other side of the canyon wall is far away to the point where the sub wouldn't be in a space considered "too tight" (unless the XO was talking about the distance between the sub and the wall being "too tight", or too close). Maybe I'm misinterpreting that.

Well, if anything, he was being reckless by being the sub closer to the wall, but the speed of the sub itself is never mentioned (from what I remember, the only speed mentioned in the scene is the NTI they were tracking, because it was going way faster than the sub and then it was announced again being way beyond anything any human submarine could accomplish). But, any case, it's a submarine underwater near the ocean floor. I would think any kind of damage to the outside would more than likely cause the kind of flooding we've seen (especially if the sub got damaged similar to the Titanic, where it wasn't just one hole, multiple small breaches that were enough to cause it to flood). I mean, we've seen how fast one small puncture in a small sub can fill up fast (as we did with Lindsay drowning). Imagine multiple holes the size of manhole covers and much quickly that would fill up. Again, I could be misinterpreting things. It just seems like the sub would have had more damage if it had been going at it's top speed, which doesn't seem to be the case when we see it later in the film when the Rigs crew and the Marines make their dive to it.

Honestly, a lot of these questions seem like we need the novelization to answer, and it's certainly making my brain itch. As of right now (as of finishing typing), I have gone on eBay to purchase the novelization so that we can at least get something of an idea of an answer (though many may not consider the novelization as canon, keep in mind that it was reported in the trivia for the film that Cameron gave Ed Harris, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and Michael Biehn the opening chapters that were written for the novelization for them to read in order for them to understand their characters better. So, if this trivia is true, Cameron accepted what Orson Scott Card had written as a part of the story). I guess we'll find out what answers there are when it arrives in a week or two (unless there happens to be another member of the RPF that happens to have a copy already).
 
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Well, he orders the sub to go down five degrees, which also made it be closer to the wall. But, it seems more like he was being cautious while trying to keep track of the NTI to me every time I've watched it.
That's the thing, he's a boomer driver, he shouldn't be trying to keep track of it, he should have been trying to lose it. With passive sonar, which subs probably at least 90% of the time, you can't tell if someone is tracking you or not unless you've made some fairly loud noise then you can be fairly certain that you were heard. So if there's something out there that he suspects is a Russian submarine, or at least something unidentified, he should have been going in the opposite direction to try to lose it since his job is to keep his sub hidden and undetected in case WWIII ever broke out and he receives launch orders. Ohios, the class this sub likely was, are supposed to be very quiet, so he should have backed off and become a hole in the water. Chasing after suspected Russian submarines is the job of attack boats like the LA class and the skipper of a Russian boomer would also be doing their best to remain undetected and not chase after suspected American subs.
 
That's the thing, he's a boomer driver, he shouldn't be trying to keep track of it, he should have been trying to lose it. With passive sonar, which subs probably at least 90% of the time, you can't tell if someone is tracking you or not unless you've made some fairly loud noise then you can be fairly certain that you were heard. So if there's something out there that he suspects is a Russian submarine, or at least something unidentified, he should have been going in the opposite direction to try to lose it since his job is to keep his sub hidden and undetected in case WWIII ever broke out and he receives launch orders. Ohios, the class this sub likely was, are supposed to be very quiet, so he should have backed off and become a hole in the water. Chasing after suspected Russian submarines is the job of attack boats like the LA class and the skipper of a Russian boomer would also be doing their best to remain undetected and not chase after suspected American subs.
But the rub is this: He wasn't chasing the NTI, or at least that's not how it seems when I watch the scene. It seems more like the NTI is following the sub and circles it to me (think of like the scene with Lindsay when she's outside near the oxygen tanks, the small comes up, seeming like it's curious as to what she's doing). When I say he was trying to keep track of it, let me put it in a context that you may be able to get: if you're in the woods and hear a bear roar, and you're trying to avoid the bear, wouldn't you been looking around to try to see where it might be in order to avoid it? To me, that's what it kinda felt like. Like he was trying to keep track of where this unidentified thing that is in proximity to the sub is while trying to avoid coming in contact it because he doesn't know if it's a threat. And, again, I could very well be misinterpreting things

But, like I said, when the novelization gets here, I'll see what answers it has and try to share them, see what is what. We'll know for sure if he was chasing it, trying to avoid it, why he was chasing it (if it's the case) and find out if there was any speed of the sub mentioned. If it turns out he was chasing it, there might be an answer to why in the book. If it turns out he wasn't chasing it, we might find out what he was thinking when it came to his actions.
 
What a novelization author has to add really doesn't have any relevance to the film.
As I've stated:
(though many may not consider the novelization as canon, keep in mind that it was reported in the trivia for the film that Cameron gave Ed Harris, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and Michael Biehn the opening chapters that were written for the novelization for them to read in order for them to understand their characters better. So, if this trivia is true, Cameron accepted what Orson Scott Card had written as a part of the story).

Now, if you disagree with that, that's okay. You do you and you're welcome to whatever opinion you have about them. But honestly, sometimes, the novelizations can provide some sort of answer that is lacking in the film. And having some sort of jumping off point of an answer the novelization has is better than just arguing in circles over a scene where we can't even agree to something as simple as to if the sub's captain was chasing the NTI or not. And at this point, I'm interested in seeing what the novelization says about this scene than to be headstrong in one view. Film is supposed to be interpretative with information given. We have at Riceball who took the scene as the Captain chasing the NTI, while for me I see if as the Captain trying to be cautious around the NTI. And frankly, since the scene in the film doesn't give a clarification on which interpretation is true, the novelization might. And if it turns out that my interpretation was wrong and the novelization confirms what Riceball suspects, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong (just as I've already admitted multiple times that I could be misinterpreting things). At this point, I'm curious to have an answer, and since the film proper can't give it, the novelization, based off Cameron's own screenplay, might be able to.

But, like I said, if you disagree with that, that's okay. You do you and you're welcome to whatever opinion you have about them.
 
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I just watched the scene and I'll admit that I'm not exactly certain what the Montana's skipper was doing but he didn't seem like he was trying too hard to get away from the NTI. The smart and sensible thing would have been to go 5 degrees up on the dive planes, not down, and get out of that trench/canyon to get himself some maneuvering space. As I've said, a bommer skipper's job is to keep his boat hidden at all times and not investigate odd contacts on his sonar. Yes, you want to keep tabs on any unknown contact. Still, they can do that from a far greater range than the 200 yards that was first stated, and neither do they have to keep their nose pointed at it since an Ohio has a towed array that can be trailed out behind to listen to/for anything behind her and, if I'm not mistaken, they also have passive sonar arrays along the side of the hull as well.

 
What a novelization author has to add really doesn't have any relevance to the film.
Novelizations can help flesh out a film but at the same time, they're most often based an on early draft of the film so there will be differences. This is because novelizations tended to be set to release at the same time as the film so there's no way that the novelization can be released at the same time based on the final shooting script and final cut of the film.
 
I just watched the scene and I'll admit that I'm not exactly certain what the Montana's skipper was doing but he didn't seem like he was trying too hard to get away from the NTI. The smart and sensible thing would have been to go 5 degrees up on the dive planes, not down, and get out of that trench/canyon to get himself some maneuvering space. As I've said, a bommer skipper's job is to keep his boat hidden at all times and not investigate odd contacts on his sonar. Yes, you want to keep tabs on any unknown contact. Still, they can do that from a far greater range than the 200 yards that was first stated, and neither do they have to keep their nose pointed at it since an Ohio has a towed array that can be trailed out behind to listen to/for anything behind her and, if I'm not mistaken, they also have passive sonar arrays along the side of the hull as well.

Novelizations can help flesh out a film but at the same time, they're most often based an on early draft of the film so there will be differences. This is because novelizations tended to be set to release at the same time as the film so there's no way that the novelization can be released at the same time based on the final shooting script and final cut of the film.
Well, come next Monday, I'll see what the novelization says about this scene when it arrives in my mailbox. Maybe it has an explanation, or at least give us an idea, as to what the skipper was thinking, how fast the actual sub was travelling and any other actions that lead to the sub's demise.
 

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