Black Widow Gun Belt, Iron Man 2

PropSculptorUSA said:
Are you going to use that for the body suit??
Click to expand...

It's on the experimentation agenda; I'm planning to get a swatch and see what its actual properties are.

It seems to be similar to neoprene, but with the mesh pattern actually part of it, which is the ideal I've had in my head. The way the folds work, particularly in this shot, indicate something fairly thick.

blackwidow3_640x480.jpg


If I get the stuff and it totally doesn't behave right, I'm only out a few bucks, and it's back to the light neoprene (or maybe stretch twill/denim, though I'm skeptical about that) and mesh combo.

My target date is Dragon*Con, so I have plenty of time for experimentation.
 
I you look carefully at the swatch you will notice that the gridding is recessed, not overlain. This is why I suggest that it is flocked or woven in and not covered with a mesh. Also the fabric does not move like two layers together. This isn't to say that if you can replicate the look and feel with a mesh overlay, you shouldn't. Do what you can. But my several years of experience in textiles tells me that this is not that.

If it is light neoprene, it could have the grid etched into it, burning away the top layer of fabric.
 
Darth Mule said:
I you look carefully at the swatch you will notice that the gridding is recessed, not overlain. This is why I suggest that it is flocked or woven in and not covered with a mesh. Also the fabric does not move like two layers together. This isn't to say that if you can replicate the look and feel with a mesh overlay, you shouldn't. Do what you can. But my several years of experience in textiles tells me that this is not that.

If it is light neoprene, it could have the grid etched into it, burning away the top layer of fabric.
Click to expand...

If you go to Stretch house and pull their "dual layered" neoprene apart, it will give you that EXACT same effect. And no, the material wont move as two layers on top of each other, it's prob. been thermo-fused in to the, for sake of argument, neoprene, you can do that and it will bond near perfectly...

But that's why I was saying it's prob. an open-cell neoprene because of the weave - it looks like it could have been a dual-layer just opened up. But the other thing, and it could be, but it could be a just a heavy weight custom weave with the mesh thermo bonded... I put a link up to a similar material a few posts ago - looks like 1/8th" or 1/16" porthole mesh
 
wiliqueen said:
It's on the experimentation agenda; I'm planning to get a swatch and see what its actual properties are.

It seems to be similar to neoprene, but with the mesh pattern actually part of it, which is the ideal I've had in my head. The way the folds work, particularly in this shot, indicate something fairly thick.

blackwidow3_640x480.jpg


If I get the stuff and it totally doesn't behave right, I'm only out a few bucks, and it's back to the light neoprene (or maybe stretch twill/denim, though I'm skeptical about that) and mesh combo.

My target date is Dragon*Con, so I have plenty of time for experimentation.
Click to expand...

Actually, in looking at that pic posted... it does look like a thin neoprene with the way the lines and seams sit, the movement in the fabric and then the depth of the material in other shots...
 
JP05 said:
Holster looks like a SERPA made by Blackhawk. Just a thought...hard to tell from that angle.
Click to expand...

Looks like but turns out not to be. The release is not in the same position that BlackHawk puts theirs in and according to them, they didn't make it.

It's very possible that it is a custom job meant to look like a SERPA.

Either way, I have not found anything else that looks the part so SERPA it will be.

Also a note about coloring. On good authority I am told that the fabric is not black. That it does have a dark grey blue color to it. It helps to offset it from the clearly black items like the zipper, gloves, belt and boots.
 
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Zendragon said:
Looks like but turns out not to be. The release is not in the same position that BlackHawk puts theirs in and according to them, they didn't make it.

It's very possible that it is a custom job meant to look like a SERPA.

Either way, I have not found anything else that looks the part so SERPA it will be.

Also a note about coloring. On good authority I am told that the fabric is not black. That it does have a dark grey blue color to it. It helps to offset it from the clearly black items like the zipper, gloves, belt and boots.
Click to expand...

Most material, from what I've heard and learned, can't be a "true" black or a "true" red because it just films horribly and you and you can't, as a viewer differentiate anything on the suit, and you end up looking like a black blob on the screen.

Case and point my material here - I couldn't find the smoke-colored neo any where, but here is black on black...

Sorry for the quality, the charger burnt out and the battery is dead on the cam.. had to use my phone...
materials.jpg
 
Zendragon said:
Also a note about coloring. On good authority I am told that the fabric is not black. That it does have a dark grey blue color to it. It helps to offset it from the clearly black items like the zipper, gloves, belt and boots.
Click to expand...

I see it as a navy, but that could be lighting. the Rubies looks like it will be a bluish. http://www.buycostumes.com/Iron-Man-2-2010-Movie-Black-Widow-Sexy-Adult-Costume/69912/ProductDetail.aspx

As Darth Mule was saying. some of the ebay photos of the swatch card look like the grid was recessed from the rest, making me think snakeskin when I first saw them.
 
PropSculptorUSA said:
If you go to Stretch house and pull their "dual layered" neoprene apart, it will give you that EXACT same effect. And no, the material wont move as two layers on top of each other, it's prob. been thermo-fused in to the, for sake of argument, neoprene, you can do that and it will bond near perfectly...

But that's why I was saying it's prob. an open-cell neoprene because of the weave - it looks like it could have been a dual-layer just opened up. But the other thing, and it could be, but it could be a just a heavy weight custom weave with the mesh thermo bonded... I put a link up to a similar material a few posts ago - looks like 1/8th" or 1/16" porthole mesh
Click to expand...

Let me clear up my "why its not a mesh overlay" argument. Notice in both the swatch pic and the hi-res that the gridding is recessed. If it were an overlay, the grid would be raised. No matter how well you fuse it. That grid has to be taken away, and not added on. Besides. Fusing would add weight to the fabric, making it stiff. Does this all make sense? Not trying to be difficult, just stating what I see here based on my experience. Also, the mesh you posted a pic of looks nothing like the pattern.

You may be onto something with the open cell neoprene though. Found this in a quick search. Its for mats and gaskets, so it probably doesn't stretch, but the pattern is present. And it looks right. The way the outer fabric sticks to the cell structure seems to create the pattern. Now can we find this stretchy in about 1/16" thickness. The fabric looks to be about sweatshirt weight.

sponge_rubber_open_cell-big.jpg


PropSculptorUSA said:
Most material, from what I've heard and learned, can't be a "true" black or a "true" red because it just films horribly and you and you can't, as a viewer differentiate anything on the suit, and you end up looking like a black blob on the screen.
Click to expand...

True on the black. But not so much from a filming standpoint as from a basic makeup of the color. Black is basically the presence of all color. Reds and Blues are the most commonly used to push them darker. This is why when you get a black t-shirt under a black light it turns red or blue in tone. Not sure about the "true" red... I design for the stage, so I don't have to worry about filming :eek

I'd say Navy is a good bet on this. A blue black possibly. You can really tell there's some blue in it when you look at her hands (I know... She has hands?) where her black gloves are next to her sleeve.
 
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Darth Mule said:
Let me clear up my "why its not a mesh overlay" argument. Notice in both the swatch pic and the hi-res that the gridding is recessed. If it were an overlay, the grid would be raised. No matter how well you fuse it. That grid has to be taken away, and not added on. Besides. Fusing would add weight to the fabric, making it stiff. Does this all make sense? Not trying to be difficult, just stating what I see here based on my experience. Also, the mesh you posted a pic of looks nothing like the pattern.

You may be onto something with the open cell neoprene though. Found this in a quick search. Its for mats and gaskets, so it probably doesn't stretch, but the pattern is present. And it looks right. The way the outer fabric sticks to the cell structure seems to create the pattern. Now can we find this stretchy in about 1/16" thickness. The fabric looks to be about sweatshirt weight.

sponge_rubber_open_cell-big.jpg




True on the black. But not so much from a filming standpoint as from a basic makeup of the color. Black is basically the presence of all color. Reds and Blues are the most commonly used to push them darker. This is why when you get a black t-shirt under a black light it turns red or blue in tone. Not sure about the "true" red... I design for the stage, so I don't have to worry about filming :eek

I'd say Navy is a good bet on this. A blue black possibly. You can really tell there's some blue in it when you look at her hands (I know... She has hands?) where her black gloves are next to her sleeve.
Click to expand...

Hands?? lol

The only real difference is the thickness of the material; the stuff I have is a 2-way and the stuff in the pics is a 4 way - hence mine looking a lil rough and only stretching from one way to the other. it will also look thinner, frame wise, than a 4-way. this stuff, metallic air mesh, adds virtually no weight to the item it's on... a full 8yd block weighs less than 3 lbs... the stuff is really nice.

The pattern almost suggests an open neo or some form of a processed neoprene just from the movement. I don't know what kind, or how thick, but I'd almost put my money on it being neoprene.

And I will tell ya, red and true black are horrible to film if you dont have a great lighting tech or the right filter on your lens - it sucks.

But yea, that being said, unless we talk to someone on set, we can speculate til the cows come home... I just wanna see her in that costume LoL
mat2.jpg
 
I saw came back from watching movie :) And yeah her fabric has a very definite sheen to it as well as the grey/blue tone. A satin-matt finish that is not glossy ;) I wonder if perhaps a cire technique was used. It may also just be an effect of lighting- when you have such small cells highlights and shadows do weird things.

The very latest photo here of the fabric swatch is so much clearer than the previous two :) In the first two shadows and light made it hard to tell what was recess and what was fore- it happens a lot with a photograph of 3D objects, such as the inside of a mold).

You can get many different grades and textures of mesh even in spacer fabric. I had a look around and it is generally offered on sites that sell sporting and utility type materials.

It looks like a laminated fabric anyway and on screen has a wonderful effect of being not quite metallic (the two tone effect of the two layers) and not really leather and not quite denim. I know Scarlett talked about the fabric in some interview- that it was more utilitarian than in the comics.
 
I've been searching online for the past 6 hours for this material - everything from lycra catsuits on eBay to neoprene wetsuits, and I can't find anything that comes close to the fabric.

It looks rather similar to the fabric that was used in the Fantastic Four movies for their suits, as well as the suit Rachel Nichols wore under the armour in G.I. Joe, but Google has so far failed me.

I'm tempted to find a way to contact the costume designer from the movie (Mary Zophres)...

I had a quick browse for pique fabric cause I heard it mentioned earlier (I honestly have no idea about different fabrics, I'm a bit of a newbie) but maybe this will help.

http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=HHH865

http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=HHH867

Found this as well

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/220021595/Cotton_Modal_Waffle_Knitting_Textile_Fabric.html


Here are some pictures I found today, I hope they can help too. They're pretty high-res.

 
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pict0089l.jpg


hahaha. we had an TV appearance today and I was surprised Robert already did me a BW belt altthough still have to edit a bit. :D
 
I had the idea I wanted to try to do this costume, but looks like finding the material is going to be the first big hurdle, and as I am inexperienced in sewing and making stuff up from "scratch" still I am feeling a little overwhelmed, lol. I am glad I found you all for a resource though, I don't intend to give up yet.
 
Excellent start here, my wife really likes the idea. I myself am working on an Iron Man suit but this a counter-part is much more kick-ass than I thought it could be ...

will be following closely.

DJ
 
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