Buyer beware DavetheDane

I think you're a little deluded if you think anyone including scratchbuilders does it entirely for the love of the hobby or anything as romantic as that, i'm sure you and other scratchbuilders put a bit of profit into your prices when you sell it's understandable and the obvious way of things.
Materials cost the same wether it's a scratchbuilt item or a cast from screen used that's a silly thing to come up with.

I never said that i do it all for the love of the hobby. I do make money on the side. Not anything to make a living off of though. Fact still remains that theres not much time involved in pushing a button to vac a helmet or armor. So where do the inflated prices come from? Im sure that the money invested in the original movie props has been made back ten fold in the sale of helmets and armor.

We're just going in circles here though....... :wacko
 
I never said that i do it all for the love of the hobby. I do make money on the side. Not anything to make a living off of though. Fact still remains that theres not much time involved in pushing a button to vac a helmet or armor. So where do the inflated prices come from? Im sure that the money invested in the original movie props has been made back ten fold in the sale of helmets and armor.

We're just going in circles here though....... :wacko

Yeah you push that button and instant trooper helmet, there's no trimming,assembly,painting involved it's a magical process vac forming.
So what about scratchbuilders that vac form their items ? they're the same level as recasters i assume ?
What about cast from screen used stuff that's fibreglass ? that the same level as scratchbuilders ?
Once you've sold your scratch built helmet kit and made back the money do you drop the price from $300 to whatever the materials cost ? no of course not, at least i've never seen it happen yet.

The bottom line as i've already said is scratchbuilders and those that cast from original production or screen used items are all stealing from the same people, the studios.
Recasters are stealing from everyone.

Spot the difference yet ? :wacko
 
Our rights exist solely within the hobby itself. Not to the outside world.
And those rights are just as valid whether you sculpt something from scratch, or you cast an original prop.

Exactly - and you did NEITHER. Hell you didnt even stump up any cash - your friend did. So just how do you think you have any rights - even within the hobby itself?

It's either protection for all, or protection for none. You don't get to cherry pick.

BINGO - you hit the nail on the head!

So maybe you'll now stop pointing the finger at other Stormtrooper makers, or calling their work "illigitimate" - when you clearly have no more rights than them.

Case closed!

Cheers

Jez
 
Defstartrooper have you ever handsculpted a helmet or prop on the scale that EVO or SGB and the other artists have and have been recasted or are you arguing from the standpoint of a collector?
 
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Defstartrooper have you ever handsculpted a helmet or prop on the scale that EVO or SGB and the other artists have and have been recasted or are you arguing from the standpoint of a collector?

Have SGB or EVO spent months or years building up contacts searching for pieces, then spent tens of thousands and have been recast ?
I don't know and to be honest it's not relevent.

I'm not questioning the time and skill it takes to create something from scratch incase you missed it it's EVO and SGB and others saying that people who aquire and cast stuff from screen used items should not be afforded the same level of solidarity from fellow hobbiest simply because they didn't physically create the item to start with.
It's they that played the cast from screen used is theft card, well so is creating from scratch, it's IP theft.
If i electronically take money from a bank illegally it's theft, is it less of a theft than physically taking the money from a bank ? of course not.
Theft is theft no matter what process is involved.
Don't believe me ? well galaxy trading rings a big bell, fan sculpted trooper armor sold commercially shutdown by LFL, did LFL say hey it's cool it's not cast from screen used it's sculpted from scratch carry on ? er no.

Scratchbuilding and casting from screen used is theft bottom line it's all stealing from studios, the difference between those two and recasters is that recasters are stealing from everyone including the studio,scratchbuilders,and people who cast from original items they own.

I will say this i've yet to see anyone who casts from screen used stuff say that scratchbuilders have no right to complain if they get recast, but i've seen it plenty of times the other way round.
Personally i think both have a right to complain,both have investments in the items they produce, just different forms.
 
People always take the word ignorant as 'name calling'...its not...it means 'not knowing'. You didnt know. If I had called you 'stupid' or something of that ilk it would have been insulting (and I believe inaccurate). I dont believe you are stupid I do however think that a lot of folks here are ignorant of IP laws and make unfounded and potentially dangerous statements about violations of IP law.
As to your statement about about the difference in scratchbuilding v. recasting an existing rare item....yes, there is a difference in the TYPE of investment but investment is investment. I know how much money went in to the original armor and helmets TE made. I know how much work went in to cleaning up things and researching and tweaking. Same goes for Gino (im not arguing rights granted by one or the other here). It would have been CHEAPER for both to scratchbuild something but it wouldnt have PROVENANCE and it wouldnt be screen accurate. So all those ,"I have to have the best trooper" troopers would have nothing but AFX. Hell, even AINSWORTH wouldnt have a suit to offer. Again, we are talking an INTERNAL STANDARD we have set to protect the Hobby and there are still a group that want to argue,"Well you stole it from LFL so I can steal it from you." Thats fine but then you wont see any future offerings...its a strip mining mentality.

Happy 4th everyone!


No, i pretty much know that none of us have IP rights to do what we do. I dont expect anyone whos never created anything from scratch to understand but i'll put it like this. There is a difference between someone that spends months in a shop creating something from scratch and someone who spends a day pouring plaster into an existing helmet to make a copy.

And now whos in it more for the money? The guy that spent months recreating something from nothing will sell his helmet anywhere from $100-$300 depending on how complicated a helmet it is to make.

The guy that poured plaster into an authentic TK helmet then walks over to a vac machine and pulls a helmet from about $20 worth of plastic will sell his for $500 (or whatever ridiculous amount of money a TK helmet is going for nowadays). So now really, whos in it for the money? If they were doing it for the prop community as some have said, then the prices wouldnt be as inflated as they are. They would make it affordable to all.

In the end, there are Re-creators and there are recasters. I am a re-creator, along with SGB, Pghfett and a few others. We have nothing to recast off of, because we are working from movie stills and CGI images. So please, dont ever say that what we do is recasting.

Onigiri, I made my point without insulting anyone, so please dont insult me by calling me ignorant. Im all for having a good clean debate, but once the name calling starts, Youre making this thread way to personal.

On a lighter note..........

Happy 4th of July to all, and thank you to all the members in our armed forces. The sacrifices you make for us to keep our freedoms do not go unnoticed. :thumbsup
 
Slippery slope, Jez. Using your argument then if someone I knew at LFL gave me a helmet then I would fall in to that category. I didnt build it. I didnt pay for it. So if I took a mold and offered it up in your understanding I shouldnt be afforded any 'rights' in this hobby? In going after Gino youve essentially said that it doesnt matter if its your property if you didnt PAY for it then you have no recourse and should be offered no protection within the hobby.
I think thats what Im reading here...please correct me if Im wrong.


Exactly - and you did NEITHER. Hell you didnt even stump up any cash - your friend did. So just how do you think you have any rights - even within the hobby itself?



BINGO - you hit the nail on the head!

So maybe you'll now stop pointing the finger at other Stormtrooper makers, or calling their work "illigitimate" - when you clearly have no more rights than them.

Case closed!

Cheers

Jez
 
It's really more about Jez trying to discredit me at any turn, at any given opportunity.
He's been doing it for years.

I think when it comes to Jez and posting in trooper threads, after his role in perpetuating all the Andrew Ainsworth propaganda to this community, he really should just STFU. Have some humility for god sakes. You shouldn't get to interject your opinions in such a bold manner when you were wrong about practically everything.


.
 
By creating something from scratch or restoring an original work requires allot of time and potentially money.

But people forget to cost of:

All the different materials that needs to be used all depending on what you make. For instance glassfiber parts require allot. Its the moulds they get worn and needs to be replaced. Just the mould of the Ironmanhelmet is 500 USD. Then you got the materials to make the darn thing...
Tools getting used and variouse parts needs to be replaces.
Electricity
Rent of workshop

Then you got allot of manhours behind.

THEN I TOTALY UNDERSTAND THAT ANY PERSON WHOULD BE UPSETT IF SOMEONE COMES ALLONG AND JUST RIP YOU DIRECTLY OFF.
 
Can't we all just agree that recasters should be dragged out into the street and curb checked?

I think everyone can agree on that. :angel
 
It's really more about Jez trying to discredit me at any turn, at any given opportunity.
He's been doing it for years.

I think when it comes to Jez and posting in trooper threads, after his role in perpetuating all the Andrew Ainsworth propaganda to this community, he really should just STFU. Have some humility for god sakes. You shouldn't get to interject your opinions in such a bold manner when you were wrong about practically everything.


.

Gino,

Its not about that and you well know it

Its about you undermining other legitimate non-recast producers of helmets and armor by trying to maintain that YOU have some kind of "special rights".

These "special rights" of yours are baseless since you own nothing and have failed to prove of any ownership. Your friend bought some moulds from TE. Not you. You paid nothing. You own nothing.

You want me to Shut The **** Up (nice!) over this because I'm right and you're unable to substanciate your claim. Hence you resort to gutter language.

Like I said, I'll stop reminding you of your non-rights when YOU stop trying to make out other armor makers are less legitimate than you.

"Have some humility" - from you thats hilarious :lol:lol:lol

Cheers

Jez
 
this argument will rage on and on with no end in sight, I have the utmost and I mean the utmost respect for both Jez and GINO, both I believe have contributed a remarkable amount to the hobby of studying/collecting/replicating accurate suit components, never before have we been afforded such attention to detail from reference photos or from actual replication of parts using THE most accurate materials/methods available, but there really is no resolution to this matter, it is at the end of the day up to the individual to decide whats right and whats wrong, one mans recaster is another mans supplier, unfortunately it will always be this way guys :thumbsup
 
this argument will rage on and on with no end in sight, I have the utmost and I mean the utmost respect for both Jez and GINO, both I believe have contributed a remarkable amount to the hobby of studying/collecting/replicating accurate suit components, never before have we been afforded such attention to detail from reference photos or from actual replication of parts using THE most accurate materials/methods available, but there really is no resolution to this matter, it is at the end of the day up to the individual to decide whats right and whats wrong, one mans recaster is another mans supplier, unfortunately it will always be this way guys :thumbsup

Amen to all of the above.
 
"501st have no rules on recasting." Isnt the 501st only concern screen accuracy?.

Personally Property rights are in the hand of the creator unless consent is given to be used..thats just how i see it. if i was to do a similar project, i may read a thread to see how someone got through a rough spot in their creation, but to steal someones hours of work just because you like it, Get in on a run or contact the original caster to get permission if they are not willing to sell, then and only when permission is given do you recast, and even then it should be for personal use not personal gain.
 
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