Can I recast an AA Helmet ?

[Too Much Garlic]

Personally I would say no.

The whole recasting problem rests in the fact that LFL refuses to produce and sell top quality items (MR excluded). They, or the licencee holders that make and sell the items, make inferior items that don't match the originals. If people hadn't recast the originals, then none of us would ever have gotten anything that looked and was exactly like the original... isn't that the heart of the problem?

But I guess, if LFL began making and selling helmets and props cast from the real things, then all the people making fan made items will lose their sales. Then there would be no need for recasting if LFL stopped refusing to offer cast from the real deal and stopped those ludicrous demands to alter the appearence of the items being sold, so that they are different from the originals.

Yes, I agree that it should be possible to determine whether a prop is the real screen used item or a new product... but this deliberate altering of what is offered is just beyond me. And the limited edition nonsense is just annoying too... but I guess the really good items are only for those with money and who mostly live in the USA.

Okay... I guess I ranted enough. Recasting is bad... no matter how you look at it... and I guess I am bad for wanting items bad enough that I am willing to buy recast items.

I guess... instead of asking about recasting... why don't we turn the attention towards LFL and begin demanding them to offer the real deal and not some doctored crap?

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 12:34 PM
Just wondering, when Rubies have stopped production of their supreme edition lid, can i recast it (in a modified form of course).

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That is already being recast.

 

[Darth Domain]

The rubies lid is being recast now, or has been already?

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 12:52 PM
The rubies lid is being recast  now, or has been already?

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I've seen a few offered on eBay. But of course, they could simply have been repainted and modified original Rubies Supremes... I'm not sure. But I think it is very reasonable to assume that it has been recast already.

 

[Darth Domain]

So what about this scenario. Someone has taken the rubies lid, modded it to high hell, then recast this.
Due to the work they would have done on it to make it look completely different from the original, would they not just be making a cast of their work and not a complete recast of the supreme per se (if you get my meaning).

 

[The Manlet]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 05:34 AM
Just wondering, when Rubies have stopped production of their supreme edition lid, can i recast it (in a modified form of course).
I'm confused as to what  the rules are with the R word

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I dont think anyone would care if you recasted a rubies now lol. As to most dont see it as worth recasting. I was thinking of that myself for a while but i also saw it as somthing that would need a ton of work put in to the face plate, witch i have done befor it's no big deal but the dome is the real problem (A new system for holding the dome in place would be needed)n if rubies stoped making them it would take at lest 10 year for people to give enough of a crap to want one. Rubies isn't held in the high'est respect with prop collectors

And you would also have to take into account DP CA and there recast, and DP DLX as well as recasts of thoese, as well as other great helmets fan made on the market now and in the future. Would anyone want a recast of a rubies? even in fiberglass
the work on the helmet would have to be perfect.
that would mean alot of trial and error and ton's of money lost on working on makeing the rubies look worth wild?
Even if you did a nice recast most people that know vader lid's would say "its just recast of a rubies"
I myself have spent well over 200 bucks and countless hours trying to make a rubies look like an ANH i put it up on ebay hoping to break even to start work on a revel helmet and only made 100 off it.

now that i look at it i should have just got a nice fiberglass kit :cry

 

[Darth Domain]

reason i'm using the rubies as an example is to try and get my head around the rules of recast.
Now DP held the license, many casts have been made and distributed on E-Bay and here in JY, these are reacasts of Don Post's work, not the person who took the DP piece then copied it. So, why could someone not recast AA.
It seems that anyone who is in disagreement with recasts should never buy a DP etc.
It would seem there are no rules about Recast, the goalposts seem to move with regards to where the boundries lie
It seems more of a moral judgement thing as opposed to hard, fast rules.

 

[TK765]

As it doesn't match the screen helmets.....why would you want to???? :lol

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 01:01 PM
So what about this scenario. Someone has taken the rubies lid, modded it to high hell, then recast this.
Due to the work they would have done on it to make it look completely different from the original, would they not just be making a cast of their work and not a complete recast of the supreme per se (if you get my meaning).

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Unless you have completely sealed the whole original helmet with your modifications, so nothing of the original Rubies is visible, can you call it your own work.

Modding a helmet and then selling it would be okay, but to mod a helmet only to make copies is imo not okay, since you have taken someone elses work as a base to make your version. If you made it from scratch, that would be a whole different matter, since no other company and/or person have had any of their products used in the creation of your helmet.

I would still say no, but this is only my opinion.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Originally posted by TK765@Mar 28 2006, 11:14 AM
As it doesn't match the screen helmets.....why would you want to????  :lol

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And the GF, DP, Altmanns, Rubies etc etc, did?

:lol

 

[Darth Domain]

Totally confusing and i would say hipocritical the stance on recast (refer to my DP post above)

 

[Darth Domain]

Originally posted by TK765@Mar 28 2006, 11:14 AM
As it doesn't match the screen helmets.....why would you want to????  :lol

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:lol

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 01:17 PM
Totally confusing and i would say hipocritical the stance on recast (refer to my DP post above)

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I would not buy a DP recast either.

I'm still not sure how I stand on props cast from the real props... mainly because I really want some of them... but the moral and ethical answer would be that I wouldn't buy those either... just think that is a bit harder to uphold for me...

To me, all recasting is bad, no matter who or what is recast. But maybe we should look at why some stuff is recast and that is basically because LFL offers items that have been altered from the screen used props.

Recasting from companies and private individuals is imo worse, because they offer a product they have spent a lot of money on producing and advertising. Again, if only LFL and the companies having the licence to make SW stuff offered items that wasn't modified and altered... then most of the recasting issue would stop... recasting from screen used... and only leave the unethical recasting of companies' and other peoples work.

 

[Darth Domain]

So in effect, what is being said that if the company is making lids (such as rubies), but they have been considerably altered from Screen lids, then it should be ok to mess about with them and recast them?

Also. the thread has gone off track. Whose molds did AA use? Did he copy, if so can we? Who would be the bad guy the original copier or the one who follows?

 

[Lynn TXP 0369]

People have done it by recasting DP Vaders and Fett helmets and people here gobble them up like a shark frenzy in a tank and people still want more.

This is no different, you make it and people here will buy them just like they do with the DP recast's and still want more.

Lynn

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Darth Domain+Mar 28 2006, 01:57 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darth Domain @ Mar 28 2006, 01:57 PM)</div>

So in effect, what is being said that if the company is making lids (such as rubies), but they have been considerably altered from Screen lids, then it should be ok to mess about with them and recast them?

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[/b]

Err... no. If you are referring to what I am saying then it is simple: recasting should be avoided, no matter what.

However, having said that... items cast from original items or molds not offered for sale by official companies are imo a different ball game than items sold by a company or a private person. The company and a private person has used a lot of time, money and effort into making their item and all that is stolen by the racaster, who only wants to make some quick money, without risk or effort.

Recasting items that are no longer for sale is just as bad, since you take away that campany's or some other company who bought the rights chance of starting up a new run of that item - basically meaning that the money spent on getting the rights and the molds, etc are lost, because of people recasting their work.

Since LFL doesn't offer casts of the original movie props... there is no lost sale when people recast their props... though... instead of then beginning to offer those casts, LFL pulls those offering those items to court.

If only LFL offered those items, then there would be no need for recasting anything.

<!--QuoteBegin-Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 01:57 PM
Also. the thread has gone off track. Whose molds did AA use? Did he copy, if so can we? Who would be the bad guy the original copier or the one who follows?

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As far as I've heard he copied TE, GF and other fan offered suits. Don't know whether he had any original molds in the mix as well. Someone with more knowledge can possibly answer that better than I can. (talking about the armor here, not the helmet, which BingoBongo covers in the next post.) :thumbsup

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 11:57 AM
Also. the thread has gone off track. Whose molds did AA use? Did he copy, if so can we? Who would be the bad guy the original copier or the one who follows?

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For the helmets he used his own moulds - the original ones. There has been countless pages devoted to the differences in the cap and back but I dont think anyones suggested he recast anyone else's work.

However that doesnt apply to the armour

I agree with Lynn - most people are oblivious to the issues of recasting since its such a grey area

Cheers

Jez

 

[Darth Domain]

Originally posted by BingoBongo275+Mar 28 2006, 12:16 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BingoBongo275 @ Mar 28 2006, 12:16 PM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Darth Domain

@Mar 28 2006, 11:57 AM
Also. the thread has gone off track. Whose molds did AA use? Did he copy, if so can we? Who would be the bad guy the original copier or the one who follows?

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For the helmets he used his own moulds - the original ones. There has been countless pages devoted to the differences in the cap and back but I dont think anyones suggested he recast anyone else's work.

However that doesnt apply to the armour

I agree with Lynn - most people are oblivious to the issues of recasting since its such a grey area

Cheers

Jez

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[/b]

So , he used the original moulds (his own moulds), but in fact they were not his, they beloged to GL as the stormtrooper was his concept for his film, AA just made them to instruction. So he copied someone elses work/concept to make profit?

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 01:21 PM
So , he used the original moulds (his own moulds), but in fact they were not his, they beloged to GL as the stormtrooper was his concept for his film, AA just made them to instruction. So he copied someone elses work/concept to make profit?

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Whether people agree or disagree with your statement, I don't think the RPF CoC goes anywhere near this issue....

Cheers

Jez

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Originally posted by Darth Domain@Mar 28 2006, 03:21 PM
So , he used the original moulds (his own moulds), but in fact they were not his, they beloged to GL as the stormtrooper was his concept for his film, AA just made them to instruction. So he copied someone elses work/concept to make profit?

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Well, let's get the terminology straight, shall we. Having the molds the originals were made from or molds you've made yourself, from sculpts you made yourself and then make casts off those molds is NOT recasting, no matter who holds the right to the item.

Recasting is only when you take an item, make molds from that item and then makes casts from those molds.

The fact that LFL holds the rights to the Stormtrooper or any other Star Wars item does not make it recasting if you have the original molds or you make molds from your own sculpts. Yes, you are breaking the copyright law, but you are not recasting (meaning cast of a cast).

 

[The Manlet]

I just want to know would it be ok if i recast chuck norris'es round house kick? :lol