Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP* Nearly finished pics on page 5...

[Tetmatek]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

I have one of those domes and it has the same cracks and it even cracked so bad in one spot the piece has fallen out. The cracks are happenning because there is too much resin and not enough matte. Resin has zero stength. I definetly am awaiting the results of that boat repair stuff

 

[tango'd fett]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

These damn cracks keep coming back!!!!:angry:cry

I think I'm going to have to reinforce the inside with another layer of fiberglas and I'm thinking I may have to brush some resin/Gel coat over the cracks and sand it down smooth again? Anyone have a better idea? :confused

Maybe open up the cracks a bit (gouge out with a dremel ) so you get more in to seal them ,you can also get very fine fibreglass matting so if you ar going to fill over the cracks this would add some more strength.

 

[exoray]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

IMO there is no gelcoat on that helmet, just a brushed up layer or regular laminating resin... That is probably what is leading to the problems...

Laminating resin is not gelcoat but many people take a short cut and use it for that purpose, either not knowing any better or simply not caring...

They are certainly similar resins, but they are tailored to a specific purpose and excel in their designed purpose...

IMO what you are experiencing here is the builder used layup resin as a gelcoat, and they let it 'dry' and then proceeded to doing the rest of the layup... The problem with this is that layup resin traditionally has dissolved wax in it, when you let it dry the wax migrates to the top and forms a barrier very similar to mold release... When you then proceed to layup the next layer the bond is simply not there if you let it 'dry' too much as not all the wax gets dissolved, not to mention polyester doesn't stick to itself very well to begin with if dry...

So what IMO is happening is that you are experiencing de-lamination of the brushed on fake gelcoat and the layer behind it, and to aggravate the problem it's not real gelcoat so it lacks the harder and more structural nature of real gelcoat...

Part of the reason I come to this conclusion is from the pictures you can see a difference in color of the resin around the damaged areas suggesting de-lamination...

As for a cure, it's probably never going to be 100% fixed, but what I would do is open up the damaged areas more so something can get into the de-lamination and get some supper thin adhesive and see if you can get it to pull into the de-laminated areas by capillary action... That is probably what the boat re-finisher you are looking at is supposed to do... I have never tried it with fiberglass but Minwax wood hardener might do the trick, it's a water thin adhesive that is used to soak into wood and make it like plastic...

 

[Supa troop]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

IMO there is no gelcoat on that helmet, just a brushed up layer or regular laminating resin... That is probably what is leading to the problems...

Laminating resin is not gelcoat but many people take a short cut and use it for that purpose, either not knowing any better or simply not caring...

They are certainly similar resins, but they are tailored to a specific purpose and excel in their designed purpose...

IMO what you are experiencing here is the builder used layup resin as a gelcoat, and they let it 'dry' and then proceeded to doing the rest of the layup... The problem with this is that layup resin traditionally has dissolved wax in it, when you let it dry the wax migrates to the top and forms a barrier very similar to mold release... When you then proceed to layup the next layer the bond is simply not there if you let it 'dry' too much as not all the wax gets dissolved, not to mention polyester doesn't stick to itself very well to begin with if dry...

So what IMO is happening is that you are experiencing de-lamination of the brushed on fake gelcoat and the layer behind it, and to aggravate the problem it's not real gelcoat so it lacks the harder and more structural nature of real gelcoat...

Part of the reason I come to this conclusion is from the pictures you can see a difference in color of the resin around the damaged areas suggesting de-lamination...

QUOTE]

If my memory serves me correctly, when i was originally building this under the watchful eye of Ojika, i layered all the fibreglass in the mold, once the mold had been completely covered i did continuly layer brush over the dome with a Resin type material so what the poster above is saying is very much spot on.

I was told while doing this that it would make the dome stronger, it would seem from this evidence then if its indeed happened before that corners were cut and Ojika is not the master prop maker he makes himself out to be.
Im not trying to discredit anyone here but when your being taught something you dont know by someone in the know you tend to think that thats the right way..............

 

[sskunky]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Thanks Exoray.
It looks like I might have to open the cracks.
the "creeping crack cure" I have sounds very much like the wood glue you say. It is water thin and does seep into the cracks but unfortunately it doesn't seem to be a complete cure. It has sealed some but not all.
The thing is this dome is very thin and light and has no structual strength to it so any handling flexes the dome and cracks reapear with the slightest touch. With the work I've had to do there is no choice but to handle the helmet the way I have.
The face is a different story, that's ridgid and non flexible so no probs there.
I think I will lay up again inside the dome to add strength and make it less flexible.

 

[exoray]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

If you are going to add another layer of fiberglass go for the more expensive epoxy based layup resins, they have a much higher bond strength... Also you might try drilling multiple small holes around all the bad areas to pour in the bonding agent in addition to opening up the cracks to get it in...

if its indeed happened before that corners were cut and Ojika is not the master prop maker he makes himself out to be.

As I said it could be a simple case of they didn't know any better as well... From experience real gelcoat is a pain to work with until you get to know it's quirks, and it's really not suited well to rubber molds...

 

[sskunky]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

I've re glassed the inside of the dome just using a standard Fiberglass kit and it seems to have made the dome much more ridged and less flexible. I just need to let it go off, sand and spray it black and it should look fine. I also applied some resin to the cracks to seal them and again just need them to set and sand smooth. I didn't have access to some top of the range stuff and was if to be honest a little impatient.:confused
The face is also prepped and ready to paint, so all things good......:thumbsup
I am just waiting now till everything is good, hard and dry then it's all systems go with a more accurate paint job than was initially on it......:love

 

[defstartrooper]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

The cracks were probably from the stress when the mounting block was ripped off the inside of the dome.

 

[sskunky]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

The cracks were probably from the stress when the mounting block was ripped off the inside of the dome.

Could well be.....:angry

I've cleaned that area up and glassed over it, so I hope it will be OK now......:confused

 

[4505marcel]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Cool keep up the good work, the VM is a stunning helmet

 

[tango'd fett]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Spoke to ojika about the VM02 and he was saying that a cheaper paint WAS used (cellulose) but only on the satin finish versions due to getting the ratio right for the finish. Warnings were given to all potential buyers to the risks of sun damage and durability of this paint so most went for the gloss finish which was 2 pack acrylic. He said this particular helmet was made mostly by himself as a favour to Simon for selling armour and he did all the fibreglass work, Simon just did the gelcoating.

there is a thread on the RPB that had a load of painting tips but sadly the photos have all gone now but i am sure you will find some here.

Skunky , i did a dredd helmet recently and used isopon p40 ( stuff with the fibrglass strands in it ) inside to give it strength and it worked a treat. Its polyester as well so will bond fine to the the fibreglass which is polyester also. then you could open up the cracks and even use a fine smear of this over them on the outside.

 

[sskunky]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Thanks for the tip mate!

 

[thedarkone]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Can't wait to see how this comes out. You've done a fantastic job and restoring this beaut.

 

[lambotour]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

I have to say Mark, that is the best stripping job I've seen done on a vader helmet. Good luck with the restoration.:thumbsup

 

[sskunky]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Thanks guys!
I'm really enjoying this project and learning a great deal in the process.
I'm quite lucky to have a friend that used to make boats and stuff out of fiberglass and Carbon fiber so if I get stuck and need a quick fix I call him....
I was a bit scared at using the paint stripper but again my friend assured me that if it wasn't left on for too long it would be fine and it was!
I'm just hoping my accurate painting skills are up to the same standard as my stripping skills! :lol
It was very scary doing my first Vader restoration on such a great helmet. But it seemed to have had quite a jaded history and it will be nice to change that and give it another chance in life.....
More pics and story to come..........

 

[tango'd fett]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

All that history will make it an even cooler prop to own when its finished :cool
sure you will get plenty of advice here and elsewhere so keep the pics and questions coming :lol

 

[Vadermonkey]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Are you going for the roughed up screen look or a "new" looking ANH?

 

[Supa troop]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Spoke to ojika about the VM02 and he was saying that a cheaper paint WAS used (cellulose) but only on the satin finish versions due to getting the ratio right for the finish. Warnings were given to all potential buyers to the risks of sun damage and durability of this paint so most went for the gloss finish which was 2 pack acrylic. He said this particular helmet was made mostly by himself as a favour to Simon for selling armour and he did all the fibreglass work, Simon just did the gelcoating.

.

As a Favour ? i paid for the materials DH,

the actual truth of the matter is i should have had better tutoring, and if most of the work was done by Ojika then in theory he cut corners didnt he, Great friend great gesture.

Any way i feel very responsible for all this but over the moon with the work thats been done

 

[gonk27]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Great work there Mark! I'm very impressed with that paint stripper too. I'll have to look out for that stuff.

 

[OdiWan72]

Re: Damaged VM02 Vader helmet......RESTORATION *WIP*

Spoke to ojika about the VM02 and he was saying that a cheaper paint WAS used (cellulose) but only on the satin finish versions due to getting the ratio right for the finish. Warnings were given to all potential buyers to the risks of sun damage and durability of this paint so most went for the gloss finish which was 2 pack acrylic....

Sorry to hijack this thread, but the above comments made me worry...
I also bought a VMO2 back the days when Vadermaker was still alive and went for the matte Tantive version.

It is absolutely NEW to me, that they went the cheaper route with this paintfinish!!! I never received any warning/ advice/ anything about the risk of sundamage etc. In fact it was advertised as a helmet with automotive paintjob. :confused

What exactly could happen????

Markus