Suggestion Defined time frames for sellers to ship on prop runs

[TheSt.LouisKid]

For years I have heard the scenario:

I paid that guy in full/a deposit for a (fill in the blank) prop here it is XX months/XX years later and I still have nothing.

Recently I have heard accounts of people waiting 1 to 4 years for an order. The guy who waited 4 years had to get creative in getting his order.



So two suggestions to possibly remedy this to keep problems from coming up.

1. When a seller offers a run of (XXXX) blasters perhaps make it a requirement that the seller note a delivery time frame after payment is made. It's already required to note a price(obviously) so why not require a seller to say when he will deliver?

2. Perhaps this board can mandate when an item from a run needs to be delivered. Maybe a certain number of days after payment is sent.

So suggestion number one allows the seller to post his own deadline and suggestion number two is a RPF required deadline.

There was once a thread that pointed out that for whatever reason fans are the most illness ridden people in the world. I also remember one guys excuse was that he didn't finish a prop run because he became more interested in his new filming project. Maybe if there was more order to the process then maybe there will be fewer problems.

Just as people file their taxes because of a deadline then maybe sellers need to adhere to deadline.

For me it's business and being organized. Keeps things tidy.

Just throwing some ideas out there to keep it a safer place.

 

[Rylo]

You're clearly not a prop maker. However, your concern is quite valid.

I believe communication is key. I've found if you keep your clients in the loop and respect their good nature, they won't even accept a refund when/if you offer one. That is, when a run meets with delays for whatever reason. Speaking for myself, I'm only talking about complex runs...as for small parts and greeblies runs; I have no idea what takes some people so long?? Flakes, kids? People who have no business even starting a run??

To the point: You simply couldn't mandate ones timetable on completing a complex run. Mega-runs that cost tens of thousands of dollars to produce leave the prop maker often sourcing parts and materials through numerous vendors; different countries... It can be maddening. I've personally had machinists and vendors die in the middle of runs on me! While I was working on parts for a recent run, I got a call that my # 1 machinist died in a plane crash...talk about **** happening!

A good builder regroups and sees things through to the end. A weak builder gets overwhelmed and well; we all know what happens there. That said, I believe it's terribly important for builders to be up front with their clients about possible completion windows, missed or otherwise. Speaking for myself, I've had complex runs take 26 months or longer to finish and never had the first complaint. My reveal saber run took almost 3 years working in between other runs! It helps to sometimes remember, if a builder is tackling something nobody else on the planet makes; there's often a pretty good reason. Because it's complex as all hell! Now granted, I give video, phone and email updates and my clients can call me whenever they like, but the point is, communication is key.

I suggest looking into prop makers before climbing on board for a long run. Check their reputation. If they run long do they have a reputation for delivering the goods? Do people say it was worth the wait? What's their track record, etc. Most of the people who flake have demonstrated an ability to flake time and time again...sooner or later they just implode and go too far. The solid guys are just that; solid from the start. You never see people looking for them or threads started up going, "has anyone seen so and so??" Do your homework. Check people out. Be an educated consumer.

I think about the best the RPF could do with regard to runs is set some guidelines about how long someone should have to be a member to even discuss a run predicated on pre-sales. When I was coming up (20 years ago) a new prop maker had to self finance their own runs and earn a reputation before they could even discuss a would-be run. I'm pretty sure I had about 50 self financed runs under my belt during my first 5 or 6 years on the RPF before I ever even proposed a pre-sale or extended (run) build out. I'll never understand why people don't ask builders for references or to see their portfolios?? If someone is gonna get my cash, I want contact info, references, finger prints, etc!!

In the end, there's no substitute for being an educated consumer. As I've said, my comments are geared towards large, complex runs that are usually contacted out by mature, professional individuals (collectors) who are accustomed to such pieces taking some time. With regard to these smaller runs that we see popping up all the time...delays happen, yes, but there's just no excuse for poor communication.

Mega runs are almost dead anyway. While the small jobs will always be around; the builders who are willing to invest large chunks of their lives to produce a given prop is dwindling fast. I look around at the pieces I've done over the last few years and think, my god; I spent years completing those. While proud, I confess I don't see myself doing it much longer. Smaller gigs and fun hobby runs, sure..but large, terribly expensive jobs that take years off my life? Those are coming to an end.

I'd advise any new pup coming up to really think twice about tackling the big jobs until they've earned their stripes. Self finance the small runs; learn to deal with all the crap that will come up. It's a huge responsibility and I don't see a lot of guys treating it as such anymore. The market is what you guys demand of it. Make it a good one, but be realistic. :thumbsup

-Rylo

 

[TheSt.LouisKid]

You're clearly not a prop maker.

You are kidding right? Rylo, you and I have been on the RPF for about the same time and you have never seen my work?

My suggestions are reasonable.

I think the part of the problem is that we have fanbuilders who are trying to be businessmen.

 

[Rylo]

Actually, no. Nothing stands out and (not that it matters) I was not aware that you were a professional (full time) prop maker or had otherwise completed any large or complex runs. That doesn't mean you don't have a valid concern, though. I'm certain whatever you've made is excellent and just isn't registering with me at present. I agree with you that there are indeed some who have no business engaging in runs.

That said, you still could never mandate a deadline on any given run. Windows get missed, parts get kicked back for QC issues, delays happen. Trying to implement such a thing would simply stop collectors from participating in otherwise popular runs that would then be offered privately.

Established builders have dedicated client lists and such builds would just be taken off the forum. This would force the collector (who was out of the loop) to have to try and find the prop on the secondary market at a higher price if they ever even knew it was offered in the first place. I believe the individual should have the option of coming to terms with a given builder regarding the details of a given run. If they're comfortable, proceed, if not; vote with their wallet!

Regardless, while I do not agree with a mandate or deadline, I'm not so sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to require new members or sellers to have a bit of an established background before they should be allowed to offer preorder product to the membership...not sure what that is??? Something along those lines though...

So, while I disagree with your suggestion, there is some daylight with regard to new members and/or those who really have no business offering pre-order pieces to our membership. Establishing what those guidelines would be and defining who those people are would very difficult though.

Cheers!

You are kidding right? Rylo, you and I have been on the RPF for about the same time and you have never seen my work?

My suggestions are reasonable.

I think the part of the problem is that we have fanbuilders who are trying to be businessmen.

 

[Art Andrews]

So two suggestions to possibly remedy this to keep problems from coming up.

1. When a seller offers a run of (XXXX) blasters perhaps make it a requirement that the seller note a delivery time frame after payment is made. It's already required to note a price(obviously) so why not require a seller to say when he will deliver?

2. Perhaps this board can mandate when an item from a run needs to be delivered. Maybe a certain number of days after payment is sent.

In theory, these are great suggestions. However, in practical application, they would be a nightmare to administrate and would out the staff in a position of constantly having to arbitrate sales disputes. As you can see, we are working hard to put rules and automated software in place to LIMIT both a buyer and seller's exposure, but there is no way we can oversee every run or constantly keep up to date... or even make hard/fast rules on dates that have been set and missed. It is simply an area we do not want to get into as the overhead for us it tremendous.

 

[TheSt.LouisKid]

Like I said, just putting some ideas out there.

 

[TheSt.LouisKid]

but there is no way we can oversee every run or constantly keep up to date... or even make hard/fast rules on dates that have been set and missed. It is simply an area we do not want to get into as the overhead for us it tremendous.

Now that I think of it,
not something that staff would keep monitoring or oversee but something that the buyer could notify you with. So the buyer would do the monitoring and notify if the staff. Perhaps the staff could verify the dates and go from there.

Again, just some ideas.

 

[bookface]

I think this is one area where buyers need to put some legwork in themselves, rather than having teacher look after them. Like Rylo has said, if the seller hasn't given a timeframe for completion, ask what it will be. Then do some research to see if they've been reliable in the past. If the wait reaches unacceptable levels, then like you suggested the staff could be notified and maybe selling privileges can be revoked until it's resolved. Nothing tends to get people moving faster than the prospect of a loss of income.