Graflex Variations: Facts and vs. Replica
- Thread starter scottjua
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adiemilio
Active Member
It seems there is more than one for ANH, as Mr. Gary Kurtz states on the letter that there are several items which he has duplicates of. This could not be the actual Hero since the cut on the grip its just on the top corner, being the hero the same prop used for ESB.
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That prop came out of..Gary Kurtzs collection I believe. It may have been a lightsaber prototype or afterthought. No connection to any movie, that's not even the T track they used!
edit: although I'm under the impression that molds of idealized T track were created for production later on (ROTJ era)
edit: although I'm under the impression that molds of idealized T track were created for production later on (ROTJ era)
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What he said
So with all this talk of variant buttons and levers I had to go look at all of my stuff to see if I had any of these bottom beveled buttons and dark pin levers...
Turns out I do... out of the buttons I have, two have the bottoms of the knurling beveled. It's easy to tell the difference if you look at the buttons from the bottom up - the non-beveled bottom buttons are smooth on the bottom while the beveled bottom ones as you can imagine are textured:
As for clamp levers, only one of mine has the dark pin... all the rest of them have the standard metal disk:
I am curious whether of not this debate of whether a top with straight or capped pins was used ever pans out... I only have one Graflex top that has the capped pins in them... all of the other ones I have are straight. The funny thing is I always assumed that the capped pins were more common considering that the MR ANH lightsaber I have has the capped pins.
Turns out I do... out of the buttons I have, two have the bottoms of the knurling beveled. It's easy to tell the difference if you look at the buttons from the bottom up - the non-beveled bottom buttons are smooth on the bottom while the beveled bottom ones as you can imagine are textured:
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As for clamp levers, only one of mine has the dark pin... all the rest of them have the standard metal disk:
I am curious whether of not this debate of whether a top with straight or capped pins was used ever pans out... I only have one Graflex top that has the capped pins in them... all of the other ones I have are straight. The funny thing is I always assumed that the capped pins were more common considering that the MR ANH lightsaber I have has the capped pins.
adiemilio
Active Member
I don´t know if your dark pin is one of the new ones and it is rusted; this is my old dark pin left and a new version right.
Yeah i think we consider it common due to MR and all of the repros made by Parks having them. I wonder if MR ever used the Ranch as reference.
Wow and I thought I had too many, totaling almost 4.
I have two four and one five cell bottoms and can only say one ring appears thinner. I think this particular detail has more to do with who was operating the machine at the factory to secure the flat bottom to the tube itself. The thin ring/thick ring differences look like a result of the brass tube edge being first curled over the 'cap' and then perhaps stamped/flattened with great force into place. Maybe the thin ring versions were loose in the machine and didn't get that little extra squish. I'm not saying this detail cannot be associated with certain eras of production and the props themselves just that there will always be that factory variation that goes beyond stamps and patent numbers.
If we're going to discuss the lip we could discuss wether or not the original ESB prop has the ghost circle from the factories tooling along the ring edge but outside of the text. Even my 5 cell has some, check out the accidentally pressed in circle on this 5 cell bottom. I have a pat. no. 3 cell with a ring pressed in around it too.
It is amazing to see some of these specific sabers clarified into an excruciating amount of detail, truly. Not to rain on another members possibly correct-all-around find parade but I would say to my eye that correctly marked 3 cell bottom is too flat. Regardless of ring thickness it seems to be less recessed than you would expect looking at the wear on the original prop.
Another detail on the red buttons I'm not sure has been discussed, the red button. I could swear two different colors were used.
This thread makes me want curl up into a ball and cry. But I love it anyway.
I have two four and one five cell bottoms and can only say one ring appears thinner. I think this particular detail has more to do with who was operating the machine at the factory to secure the flat bottom to the tube itself. The thin ring/thick ring differences look like a result of the brass tube edge being first curled over the 'cap' and then perhaps stamped/flattened with great force into place. Maybe the thin ring versions were loose in the machine and didn't get that little extra squish. I'm not saying this detail cannot be associated with certain eras of production and the props themselves just that there will always be that factory variation that goes beyond stamps and patent numbers.
If we're going to discuss the lip we could discuss wether or not the original ESB prop has the ghost circle from the factories tooling along the ring edge but outside of the text. Even my 5 cell has some, check out the accidentally pressed in circle on this 5 cell bottom. I have a pat. no. 3 cell with a ring pressed in around it too.
It is amazing to see some of these specific sabers clarified into an excruciating amount of detail, truly. Not to rain on another members possibly correct-all-around find parade but I would say to my eye that correctly marked 3 cell bottom is too flat. Regardless of ring thickness it seems to be less recessed than you would expect looking at the wear on the original prop.
Another detail on the red buttons I'm not sure has been discussed, the red button. I could swear two different colors were used.
This thread makes me want curl up into a ball and cry. But I love it anyway.
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Sym-Cha
Master Member
Let's bump this thread once again ... since values have gone through the roof lately ... I'd like to emphasize how important it will be to distinguish a real from replica G R A F L E X in the near future with Episode VII lurking around the corner :wacko
Here's an easy tell which may have been mentioned before, yet now I'd like to add additional pictures ... the 'G' and 'X' of G R A F L E X align with the tab holes in the clamp :
Another tell is in the 'E' and 'F' ... the horizontal parts on both letters are equal in width just as almost with this font I use now : E . . . F
Chaim
Here's an easy tell which may have been mentioned before, yet now I'd like to add additional pictures ... the 'G' and 'X' of G R A F L E X align with the tab holes in the clamp :
Another tell is in the 'E' and 'F' ... the horizontal parts on both letters are equal in width just as almost with this font I use now : E . . . F
Chaim
matty matt
Sr Member
You got yourself a nice one there! It looks like someone filed the rivet or something. I wouldn't worry about it.
It almost looks like it was refinished or had some sandpaper (or scrub pad) run across the surface to recreate that lightly brushed surface the Graflex has. I think I know who you bought this from and he's offered a few of them lately that have looked like that.
adiemilio
Active Member
I agree, it does look refinished, you can notice they polished it to look more shiny or even to have a more matte finish when the brass pins are dark and the tips are shiny, in the case of yours it is visible.
Okay I went ahead and got a real Graflex. I need help from the experts. I am gonna get Roy's kit and I assume the kit and blueprints are accurate????
So I wanted to make sure that was the case but also I noticed in his blueprint the folded over D ring holder is facing the right side but in the toe pic is does not seem to be there meaning it's facing the other side.
Thoughts?????
So I wanted to make sure that was the case but also I noticed in his blueprint the folded over D ring holder is facing the right side but in the toe pic is does not seem to be there meaning it's facing the other side.
Thoughts?????
Peep Williams
Well-Known Member
They appear to be the same orientation to me. The folded over part of the D ring holder is folded away from the clamp/bubble strip in both images. It's riveted farther from the clamp in both pics.
It looks like the top tube in that pic was rotated 180 degrees before being inserted into the clamp.
