MR discussions...

Howard,

I agree wholeheartedly that fan involvement is invaluable in recreating certain replicas. MR have for as long as I've been involved with them always made it a point to bring in knowledgeable fans when they've needed to. That's how I myself became involved and dragged in countless other board members. The sharing of information is collective and productive and can yield the best results to my way of thinking.

Barry
 
Hi Steve,

It is great to hear from someone who has direct first hand experience in the matter. Thank you for taking the time to explain everything.

I enjoyed reading your message and hope to see many more in the future - especially with respect to QMX.
 
Ok, one more thing...

Regarding the "grainy stills issue".

Having been a prop geek for many years, I can still remember back in 1984, sitting at my kitchen table with a Dremel tool and a piece of chrome plated pipe, staring at issues of Starlog, trying to make myself a Luke saber. And then selling it and making another one...and another one...

So we have ALL used the "grainy still method". :lol

Even at MR, I remember sitting with Barry looking at screengrabs trying to figure out what parts were supposed to be, because Lucas didn't have the original prop. eg; Rebel blaster... Han ESB.

"What is that?"

"Wait! I know what that is..."

"Oh wait...what IS that???"

:lol

We did the best we could and utilized the valuable input of many members here to try to get the items correct where we didn't have original reference. Fortunately, we only needed to do that for a few replicas. We tried to focus the product plan on what the archive actually had available, so we didn't have to "reconstruct". And for the record, we didn't genarelly give these contributors the credit they deserved...but that was because Lucas specifically told us NOT to. It was their policy and we had to abide by that. So a belated thanks to everyone who helped!!!

Regarding accuracy...In the grand scheme of things, YES, the MR props ARE accurate. To 99.98% of the people in the world, they surpass what they would ever expect to get. You can NEVER make everyone happy, and we weren't going to write ads that said:

"All MR props replicas are really accurate, unless you want the prop to be 100% accurate, in which case, you have to let us know what date/scene and version of the prop you want us to match. And pay us $5000 and wait 2 years while we make it exactly the way YOU want it to look..."

The props literally changed from scene to scene, and I saw numerous instances where hand props were altered from day to day. The prop makers just DID NOT pay that much attention to continuity, and for us, this was a "moving target" which we could never hit exactly.

In scene 14, the prop has a dent and a screw on the side, and in scene 18 (which was filmed earlier) it doesn't. And then, the knob fell off.

In some scenes, they filmed the resin prop and in others, it is the hero. Based on a side by side comparison, the resin prop was clearly NOT molded off the hero. Go figure THAT one out. :lol

You want a RED button Dooku or a GRAY one? They made both...

Every ATAT had some different surface detailing.

There were like FIVE grail diaries and they were ALL different sizes. Oy.

In some scenes, the props were clearly bright chrome, in others, they sprayed dullcoat on the chrome to knock it down because of the lighting in that specific scene. Which finish do you want?

Now...

Where I have a problem, is when we DID have original reference (Like Ep 1, 2, and 3 props) and someone would pop up at a convention and start a looong argument about the detail on said prop, using screengrabs as definitive reference. It usually went something like:

"Hey MR guy...Your Dooku saber is WRONG!"

"Oh, hello...my name is Steve...and may I ask why you say that?"
(Everyone who knows me, knows that I wasn't actually that polite, but this sounds really PC.)

"Look at THIS part (points angrily) you can CLEARLY see that the angle is different than on your replica!!!'

"Well, you ARE aware that photos can look different because of lighting, shadow, lens distortion, foreshortening, post-editing, etc, right?"

"NO! You can see it RIGHT here!"

"Well the replica IS correct because we digitally scanned the original and also pulled check-measurements to verify that the digital file was output correctly."

"Um...well...you are STILL wrong!...Here...I made this set of blueprints if you want to use them...Well, thanks for listening... Hey, are you guys hiring?"

Good times. :lol
 
Howard,

I agree wholeheartedly that fan involvement is invaluable in recreating certain replicas. MR have for as long as I've been involved with them always made it a point to bring in knowledgeable fans when they've needed to. That's how I myself became involved and dragged in countless other board members. The sharing of information is collective and productive and can yield the best results to my way of thinking.

Barry

Thank you! Finally someone acknowleges that this community has had some contribution to defining some parts on MR product. Unless I've missed it before, this is the first I'm hearring of it. Thank you.

and BTW, are you guys hiring? :)


hehehehe...I just had to.


:p
 
When you are dealing with a detail obsessed community such as ours, a licensee like MR will never, ever make everyone happy. Personally, I think if you don't like what is being sold, then you are free to make it yourself the way you want. Chances are it will cost you more and be less than satisfactory to you.

I made a small run of very accurate buckles for the Anakin ROTS glove after identifying three of the four real world parts used to make them. I know what the fourth part is but have not found the exact sized one just yet. At the time, MR was talking about doing Jedi costumes and the Anakin glove was to be one of the pieces they offered. I had the buckles but no one yet made a decent glove an dit looked like MR might be making a good copy. A few people urged me to contact MR and see if they would be interested in obtaining the info about the buckles for use on their glove, but I didn't think it would be acceptable for a fan such as myself to contact a licensee and offer help like this. I never kept the info a secret, you can find the thread and read about it here on the RPF if you want. Had I known MR listened to the members of the community, I might have offered the info. Oh well.
 
Hey, very interesting discussions about MR going on in these threads! I just gotta jump in here. A few thoughts:

1) A signed petition to support MR with the Star Wars license, while very-well-meaning, is essentially useless. The disparity between Lucasfilm and MR is both politically and financially driven, with a number of other company’s agendas deeply involved in the mix as well. Lucasfilm is already well underway with discussions for a new licensee(s). Even a few thousand fans signing a document will not change the logistics of the situation one iota.

2) MR was never created to “flood the market with mass-produced crap from China” (my paraphrasing). At least (my) intent in starting the company was to be able to produce wonderful products that we wanted to own, with direct access to the originals, using manufacturing techniques that were not available to us fans as "garage manufacturers". Eg; the grips on the Dooku saber took some crazy tooling that nobody else could replicate at home. The same goes for the co-molding techniques that we utilized on several other sabers…like the Anakin Ep 2. I was tired of trying to bend rubber strip over a metal tube, stuck on with carpet tape.
I wanted more. :)

3) Manufacturing in China ain’t hardly done for “a bowl of rice a day”. MR (and Sideshow, QMx, et al) are using the best factories in China. These factories KNOW they are the best and charge an arm and a leg for it. I know that the price of the minis well-over-doubled while I was there, but MR never raised the price. The full size sabers costs also soared over the last five years. The markups on these items are NOT what most people here think. Add marketing costs, overhead, shipping, fulfillment, royalties, salaries, taxes, port fees, storage, rent, etc etc, and you have to realize that prop replica companies don’t make the net margains of many other companies. If you saw what the markup on jewelry and watches was, you would faint.

4) While some replicas, like the Obi Ep 4, were not absolutely correct (due a lack of viable reference) we never put out anything that didn’t have “soul”. We really sweated the details and I remember many times where I would be sitting at dinner with someone arguing about which angle of the taper on a tiny screw we should go with, because Lucas had four different versions of the original prop and they were all different. This was NOT GM making lightsticks. Everyone that I worked with at MR really cared about this stuff. I remember many times seeing Amy crying because she couldn’t come to an agreement with a dissatisfied customer. If you want to call that “soulless”, then you don’t really understand what is happening there.

5) Lucasfilm NEVER asked us to make a product “10% inaccurate” because it was too close to the original. (That one keeps popping up and just cracks me up). If anything, they told me that they held us to a “higher standard” and mercilessly busted our chops to make things better and more accurate. We were all on the same page that the products needed to be the best they could be. The problem is…what is “accurate”? There are four models at the archive…each representing ONE prop on-screen…and they vary wildly in dimensions, finish and details. What do you do?

6) Now as a “civilian”, I can say that it is very disheartening to read numerous people bagging on your company and products on and on and on. The comments that the Luke proto getting stolen were MR’s fault and that it was a marketing stunt are just foolish. MR ATE MY DOG! BOO! Joe says that if you make it THIS way, you suck…Bob says if you make it THAT way, you suck…you can’t win. “I have a grainy still here that clearly shows that your direct access to the original prop is WRONG!” Everyone can do your job better than you and will tell you that every day. You just have to do the best you can and try to make most of the customers happy. Based on talking to literally thousands of fans, I know that MR has done that, so… mission accomplished.


There ya go…


Hi everyone,I am one of the people who set up the petition to save MR url= www.savemr.info

I think most of what you said was dead on.
But I do think a petition can work.
We just need more people behind it,and what the hell its worth a try.

The only things that can save MR`s Star Wars line at this point are the petition and letters to Lucas.
I had the privlage of hearing first hand from all the MR people at Amys party from RS last weekend.
Though I wont get into details on what was said,what I can sum up is Lucas was being VERY unfair with MR.
He has just about doubled the renew price every year,and this year was just crazy.
Something like 9 times what they paid last year or something..

Lucas is being TOTALLY unfair,you all need to know that,and that is why we the prop loving community need to fight back with this petition and letters..

Me personally im not really into the LE props and such.
But the Force fx lightsaber has changed my life.
I can`t imagine a world with no Force Fx to swing around.
Please people of RPF lets not let MR loose their licence without a fight..


MR did all they could do,if they had excepted Lucas offer chances are they would have went out of business.
MR Trav was almost in tears when they relayed the story,they don`t want to loose Star wars as much as we don`t want them to loose Star wars..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Barry and Steve,

Thanks for the detailed replies, very interesting and amusing!
Looking forward to your memoirs in a few years time, I'm sure there's some great stories yet to be told of your adventures in propdom.

Howard. :)
 
This thread is more than 16 years old.

Your message may be considered spam for the following reasons:

  1. This thread hasn't been active in some time. A new post in this thread might not contribute constructively to this discussion after so long.
If you wish to reply despite these issues, check the box below before replying.
Be aware that malicious compliance may result in more severe penalties.
Back
Top