Original ANH Stormtrooper helmet and Armor - Just the Facts
- Thread starter Brian Muir
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That is a letter from him from 2005 when he was getting hammered by a large number of us on the board at the time about the original molds and the type of material the helmets were made from. He said only 6 were HDPE and the nearly 50 others were ABS. When in fact its probably the reverse of that.
I have one of the threads saved down in e-mails from back then of us trying to show people that in our opinion he was not selling accurate helmets from the original mold and was lying about everything. Of course there were 3 or 4 people staunchly defending him for some reason. They know who they are.
His story from the beginning was that he sculpted the helmets, vac-formed maybe 6 or so out of HDPE and painted them white so that George could quickly take them back to Hollywood to show the executives at Fox in order to get funding for the movie. :lol
He was basically taking credit for Star Wars getting funded and made.
Its a story too laughable even at the time and in my opinion was the last big indicator to me he was a fraud.
As to what he says now about the material used is anyones guess.
anakin
Well-Known Member
"Well, 30 years passed and I decided to reintroduce the Stormtrooper for the memorabilia market. George Lucas’ licensing people rang me up and said, “Who the hell are you?” I said, “I’m the guy who sold you all those characters 30 years ago. Who are you?” They said, “We are the guys who have registered these designs as ours and sold licenses on them for the past 30 years ($14 billion worth), and now we are going to put you out of business!”
ha ha ha ha ha
ohh and to get back on topic - Thanks Liz and Brian for all your great work
ha ha ha ha ha
ohh and to get back on topic - Thanks Liz and Brian for all your great work
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exoray
Master Member
All I can say is that AA is a delusional and sick puppy... What a whack job...
The only good thing to come out of this entire AA roller coaster has been the public disclosure that Liz was responsible for the iconic trooper design, thank you Brian for spreading/making that public knowledge so she finally gets her credits...
GINO
Sr Member
I think it would be great fun (and nostalgic) for you to post that for all to see again. So many people forget or weren't around during this time in rpf/star wars prop/history.
.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
There you go exaggerating again!
You can question the marketing techniques, but the fact is that if something is made in limited quantities, is priced accordingly, and comes with some sort of certificate it is designed to be a "collectible" and those buying them are likely going to purchase them based on that designation. There are people who are going to buy those who will put them on a shelf, and look at them lovingly because they have a limited edition, decent quality Stormtrooper helmet based on the originals. It doesn't really matter if they are the very best available or not.
Tried. Failed. :lol Though maybe I missed it somewhere.
"stormtrooper helmet" - Google Search
I went three pages and still didn't find a link to Ainsworth on Google. However, there were a bunch of eFX links.
Fair enough comparison. Though, I'm guessing 90% of those in the market for a Stormtrooper helmet wouldn't be able to tell the difference, and if they did their research and the details really mattered, wouldn't bother with either!
I'm not exaggerating the eFX CE has zero in common with the original helmets.
Materials,construction,overall shape,details and finish are all way off you only need to glance at them to see that.
They are not based on the originals.
Try Google UK it's right there page one.
Yeah 90% of people don't care but that still leaves 10% and that's a good money spinner, if it weren't do you think Ainsworth would still be producing these products and have gone through a huge legal battle that could have seen him penniless ?
Ainsworth is in it for no other reason than money, if he wasn't making any from it he wouldn't be doing it.
And the BS on his website helps him make those sales or he wouldn't make those claims either.
The lawsuit LFL filed was for using their design and property, and Ainsworths defence was that the design was not their property as it's an industrial design and after a number of years anyone is free to reproduce an industrial design.
And that's what he won on, he would still win even if he hadn't claimed he designed it.
The bullcrap on his site about him sculpting the helmet is nothing more than marketing to give the illusion of greater involvement to bring in sales.
SFPROPS
Sr Member
Of course because he was jealous that Ainsworth's designs where better than his, and Ainsworth's ideas are actually what Ridley Scott decided to use instead. The Alien creature was all Ainsworth's idea that Giger took credit for!!!
:wacko
ghostryder
Legendary Member
Def, you know I love ya - and this is all completely friendly - but I don't think you can say "zero" as an absolute real quantifiable figure. The originals were white, the CE's are white, so that's something in common... The originals had two lenses, the CE's have two lenses... But again, not sure why you're comparing a mass item really made for the costumers and budget collectors out there.
If your issue is with eFX, then really you should be comparing the originals to the Limited Editions/PCRs. It seems your issue is with the marketing, but in this description off the eFX site, I don't see where they "trick" anyone into thinking that they were cast from an original:
This is the marketing copy on their own website.
If anything, I give eFX props for reaching out to this very community for help in developing and accurizing their products.
And again, when you say they're useless to 10 percent - 10 percent of what? The collectors out there? The RPF? Star Wars collectors? Kids? Costumers? If they 100% percent sold out, then they were 100% useful to some group.
And speaking of numbers - when talking about shape (and just shape) - is the half circle 50% "accurate" to the circle on the right?
Just thinking out loud, and again mean this in a friendly, spirited tone.
:cheers
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Def, you know I love ya - and this is all completely friendly - but I don't think you can say "zero" as an absolute real quantifiable figure. The originals were white, the CE's are white, so that's something in common... The originals had two lenses, the CE's have two lenses... But again, not sure why you're comparing a mass item really made for the costumers and budget collectors out there.
If your issue is with eFX, then really you should be comparing the originals to the Limited Editions/PCRs. It seems your issue is with the marketing, but in this description off the eFX site, I don't see where they "trick" anyone into thinking that they were cast from an original:
This is the marketing copy on their own website.
If anything, I give eFX props for reaching out to this very community for help in developing and accurizing their products.
And again, when you say they're useless to 10 percent - 10 percent of what? The collectors out there? The RPF? Star Wars collectors? Kids? Costumers? If they 100% percent sold out, then they were 100% useful to some group.
And speaking of numbers - when talking about shape (and just shape) - is the half circle 50% "accurate" to the circle on the right?
Just thinking out loud, and again mean this in a friendly, spirited tone.
:cheers
Thats cool Willie but i didn't make the comparison i was arguing that you can't compare the eFX CE precisely because it is a budget innacurate item aimed at casual fans rather than serious collectors.
Not sure where the useless comment comes from i don't think i said anything about useless did i ? regardless the 90%-10% were not mine either that was the figures SFPROPS quoted when he said 90% of casual fans will be happy with an eFX Ce helmet and not know the difference, so i replied stating that it still leaves 10% for AA to market at.
Personally i'm not a fan of placing a percentage value on accuracy i don't really do that but others do, that's why i said the materials,construction etc are all way off as that is a statement of fact i didn't say it's x percentage accurate.
Also i stated that the CE is not based on the original helmets in reply to SFPROPS saying they are.
Granted eFX haven't stated that they are either but SFPROPS must have gotten the impression from somewhere that they are, i would wager this is from the marketing that eFX/MR used for the LE helmets where they state they took a scan from a Hero helmet and moulds from a stunt to make their LE helmet, which judging by the product they didn't use or binned because that helmet is nowhere close to accurate either.
Sorry but comparing Ainsworth to the genius of Giger is stupid.Giger designed the Alien creatures before the Alien movie was even thought about.Ridley Scott got hold of Gigers works and brought him on-board to sculpt the Alien based on his earlier paintings.Ainsworth couldn`t sculpt a monkeys ass if he tried to.
This painting is Gigers from 1976 depicting his Alien creature from his Necronom IV.
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defstartrooper
Sr Member
Sorry but comparing Ainsworth to the genius of Giger is stupid.Giger designed the Alien creatures before the Alien movie was even thought about.Ridley Scott got hold of Gigers works and brought him on-board to sculpt the Alien based on his earlier paintings.Ainsworth cauldn`t sculpt a monkeys ass if he tried to.
This painting is Gigers from 1976 depicting his Alien creature from his Necronom IV.
He was being sarcastic i think :lol
ghostryder
Legendary Member
Ahh, okay, gotcha - I should have read the thread a little better - I think this is what tripped me up:
I didn't know what "90% of people" meant - the term 'useless' was my own interpretation.
Again, having worked in licensed replicas - I've always been confused by placing "quantifiables" (numbers) on abstracts (art). Certainly an interesting concept and debate...
...for those smarter then me, lol.
No worries - cheers and beers!
I didn't know what "90% of people" meant - the term 'useless' was my own interpretation.
Again, having worked in licensed replicas - I've always been confused by placing "quantifiables" (numbers) on abstracts (art). Certainly an interesting concept and debate...
...for those smarter then me, lol.
No worries - cheers and beers!
Jamanticus
Well-Known Member
Sorry but comparing Ainsworth to the genius of Giger is stupid.Giger designed the Alien creatures before the Alien movie was even thought about.Ridley Scott got hold of Gigers works and brought him on-board to sculpt the Alien based on his earlier paintings.Ainsworth cauldn`t sculpt a monkeys ass if he tried to.
This painting is Gigers from 1976 depicting his Alien creature from his Necronom IV.
That's what SF was going for, how ridiculous that notion is. He knows, we all know that Giger created the alien- what he's saying is that Ainsworth probably thinks that he gave Giger the idea and all that... Wouldn't surprise me with all the delusions the man is living under right now, thinking he's the creator of the original Alien :lol
EDIT: Darn my slow-typing fingers. Yeah, what defstar said.
SFPROPS
Sr Member
Hey, no problem. It's just not a stretch to believe that my scenario could be real, in Ainsworth's mind. All evidence supports the idea that Lucas spent A LOT of time on pre-production with an eye on detail with experience designers/sculptors working with him to get his vision correct.
The idea that some plastic pond manufacturer was the one secretly coming up with all the designs, despite there being production art showing these creations being fleshed out way before he was involved, borders on insanity.
..and the idea that just because something is realized in 3 dimensions by a manufacturer, it gives them carte blanch to the "industrial design" is an absurd implementation of copyright law. Based on that interpretation, the courts have pretty much gave the go ahead for people to start selling unlicensed products from properties like the Baker era Doctor Who without fear. That is, if they are going to be consistent I think.
The idea that some plastic pond manufacturer was the one secretly coming up with all the designs, despite there being production art showing these creations being fleshed out way before he was involved, borders on insanity.
..and the idea that just because something is realized in 3 dimensions by a manufacturer, it gives them carte blanch to the "industrial design" is an absurd implementation of copyright law. Based on that interpretation, the courts have pretty much gave the go ahead for people to start selling unlicensed products from properties like the Baker era Doctor Who without fear. That is, if they are going to be consistent I think.
defstartrooper
Sr Member
Well that is the law and it not only gives him carte blanche to continue making stormtrooper armour and helmets it gives anyone carte blanche to, it's free for anyone to use at least in the UK.
LFL argued that the props were an artistic design Ainsworths side argued it was an industrial design and won.
And industrial designs are only protected for a certain number of years.
Qui-Gonzalez
Master Member
I would almost agree, but it would needlessly stir up some bad juju. I know who they are, you know who they are and for the most part, they have done a solid 180. Either that, or have shut up about it.
vaderdarth
Master Member
Yeah and while we're at it, let's re-hash all the bad memories of jerks who have harmed our hobby in some way!!!! On second thought, maybe not poking the hornet's nest is the way to roll.
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