Original Stormtrooper Helmet

[HDPE]

No probs Jez,

I didn't expect anyone to remember that I was the one who brought that issue

first something like 5 years ago. Just like I don't expect people to remember

that I was the first one to discover that greeblies where used on ESB hero

trooper blasters and that they used wider scope rails.

I've also found proof that ESB stunt trooper blaster were used on set in ROTJ. Just have never

posted about it.

As I said all this dosen't matter much.


Getting back on topic IIRC there is a ROTJ style ab plate visible in the movie.

When Chewy smacks the trooper, if you watch it in slow motion and pause at the right moment you' ll see it!

If someone could cap for me from the Blu Rays I'd appreciate it as I can't do

it myself at the MO.

 

[GINO]

So, you want to see an ESB MKII on screen?

I don't believe that trooper is anything but a standard ANH converted helmet/suit.

You can see in the first photo that the helmet is an ABS square end frown and that the shoulder bells differ from ANH. The chest has the white rubber trim and the plastic shoulder straps are velcro'd in place. You can even see the velcro protruding from under the straps.

I don't think you can say with certainty from that screen cap any of those aspects.

The second photo clearly shows the new hand plates. There are no visible stitches which indicates an elastic loop as per ROTJ and also a visible return edge on the wrist. The wrists also show that the last divot on the forearm detail is cut short which is how the ROTJ suits are.

What are you talking about? All the hand plates were new in ESB.
Not all of the forearms are trimmed in the same way.

The last photo clearly shows the forearms ovelapping (inside over outside). This again is how ROTJ suits were assembled and the ESB MKII shown above is it predecessor.

Again, I don't think you can make those assertions from those fuzzy screen caps.
BTW, you have it backwards, the rotj style forearms are assembled outside over inside.



.

 

[GINO]

Here are the Mollo notes so everyone doesn't have to go digging them out.
You can see there is no mention of new suit parts being made. Only refurbishing/repair.

Like Ive said to you before, go out and talk to the artisans who made this stuff, go inspect original pieces.

I have. In fact I think it's pretty safe to say that I've seen and handled far more original SW props/costumes than you ever will (don't see you making it to the archives anytime soon).

The difference between me and you has always been that I base my conclusions on physical evidence and you base your conclusions on the fuzzy memories of those involved with the productions. How has that worked out for you over the years?

I have no problem being shown something new or different as long as clear physical evidence is provided. But it has to be CLEAR physical evidence and not contradict the physical evidence that I have seen.
And in this particular case, I don't see clear evidence to the contrary and everything still coincides with my beliefs.



.

 

[GINO]

Getting back on topic IIRC there is a ROTJ style ab plate visible in the movie.

I would love to see that. That would in my opinion would be a game changer as far as I'm concerned (as long as its clear and not a controversial fuzzy image).


.

 

[RoCKo]

I couldn`t resist and did it again, cheers HDPE!

Here is a screencap from the television HD scene, unfortunatly i still havent a Blu-ray player...
Chewy hits the Trooper:

That´s the best screenshot i could get with my limited capabilities, maybe one of the lucky Blu-ray owners can chime in.

 

[GINO]

It is not uncommon for the ab plate details to be glued on upside down in ESB which is what I believe we are seeing in that screen cap.
In fact, there is a trooper completely missing his ab plate detail in ESB as well.

Here's a shot of one with an upside down plate.

.

 

[HDPE]

Hey Gino,

long time since we haven't interacted.

I'm afraid I'll admit that in a world of fuzziness this is as fuzzy as it gets unfortunately.

However, that being said, the ab detail area seems much softer on that

particular suit than in the last pic you posted, as if it could be molded in as opposed to being glued to.

Again, we would need much better definition on all the captures posted above but this one patricular suit (not talking about the helmet) just screams different to me.

My theory has always been as follows.

They needed a special suit to be used for this specific scene : a close up combined with a stunt.

So they added white edge trim to the chest plate for detailing and so that the plastic didn't cut into the 'actor's /stunt man/ skin when he performed the jump.

Maybe they needed a more flexible suit so they formed this one suit using the " existing model cast of by plasterers." (???)

Maybe they permormed /rehearsed / shot the stunt once, using an existing refurbished suit, destroyed it doing the sunt, and needed to form another to redo the scene.

Maybe they only used existing parts, detailing them differently, but I'm sure you 'll agree that there are enough coincidences (the edge trim, the inverted ab

box etc) not to at least doubt inmo.

This one trooper chest and armour parts also seems much cleaner than the others TESB refurbished armours for some reasons.

 

[GINO]

Hey Anthony.
Yes, crisper screen shots would go a long way.
I can't say I agree with your assessments based on everything I've seen.
What you see as coincidences, I see as fuzzy screen caps that most likely would look just like the other ESB troopers if the screen caps were more crisp.
Every crisp shot of a screen used ESB trooper (on set) that I have seen reinforces that they were all the same.
I'm not sure they would have planned to have a close up trooper for a particular shot.
That's not how it really worked on set, especially for ESB which was very fluid and directed/shot very spontaneously.

 

[omp uk]

A few things to throw in the mix....

- You don't see any Jedi helmets on screen with the long frown - they're all rounded. I've looked through masses of contact sheets, been through the film frame by frame etc and can't find any.

- No ESB helmets seen on screen have bubble lenses, they're all flat.

- The three 'ESB type 2' helmets that are pictured on Jez's site all have bubble lenses.

Therefore it appears that the lenses in the 'ESB type 2' helmets are not seen in ESB and the frowns on them are not seen in Jedi......

 

[voice in the crowd]

Hi Jez,

Dodging all the ESB MKII stuff and sticking to the new suit. I find it weird a whole suit survived but the helmet isn't with it.

Cheers Chris

 

[TK 4702]

Hey Guys,

I have posted some ESB blueRay snapshots here: ESB BR Captures

Hope they help?

Jesse

 

[Stinkape]

Is that bucket picture from an art museum traveling show ? Did it have a patch on the back ?

I have seen it if it is.. Wow...

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

I have. In fact I think it's pretty safe to say that I've seen and handled far more original SW props/costumes than you ever will (don't see you making it to the archives anytime soon).

The difference between me and you has always been that I base my conclusions on physical evidence and you base your conclusions on the fuzzy memories of those involved with the productions. How has that worked out for you over the years?

.

Thanks for quoting my images off my website.Your mistake is that you're presuming there wasnt additional pages of info from John?. As far as fuzzy memories these were recorded in his diary during produciton so a lot less fuzzy than your thinking right now.

LOL so are you telling me that LFL gave you free reign over the archives. If so then maybe its fair to post photographic proof as "physical evidence" :lol

...or are we expected to take your word for it like the "Screen-Used TIE Replica" you were fraudulently trying to drum up business for a few months ago.

"Hows it worked out?" - Well actually its working out quite well for me thank you. I must say that when I got to own my first original screen-used helmet I realised that the hard work I'd put into my site had been worthwhile. So hows your hobby working out for you Gino thumbsup:thumbsup

Cheers

Jez

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Hi Jez,

Dodging all the ESB MKII stuff and sticking to the new suit. I find it weird a whole suit survived but the helmet isn't with it.

Cheers Chris

Yes, its a real shame mate. Basically I have some shots dating back to 1993 which show the 2 Stormtrooper suits that were previously seen in the Empire Day shots with the principle leads (20th May 1980). At that point they were both in the hands of a UK owner....

The ANH is easy to spot as it has the chest blast damage and I'm pretty sure the ESB Type 2 is the other one - the cut lines of the Ab plate seem to line up 100%. One of the original helmets was there (the ANH HDPE) but unfortunately the current owner didnt get it so now has only the ESB2 suit.

Ultimately in order to prove this IMO it would probably require some behind the scenes photos taken at the time when the 10 troopers can be seen in a single scene (Leia's Bespin Escape). However despite this, given the discussions Ive had with Mollo, his notes, his diary, the costings and the timescales I believe there were one or maybe 2 of these ESB Type 2's made. I think it would have been odd that they made them (because they knew they were short) - yet they didnt actually use them at all. I think in reality they didnt make complete suits, just the parts which is why the suit Ive been talking about has several parts from ANH (forearms, belt, Shins IIRC etc.)

However if others are happy to use some of my (incomplete) notes, avoid talking to anyone involved and come to a different conclusion that thats all well and good. Nothing like some good old fashined detective work :lol

Cheers

Jez

 

[HDPE]

Jez,

by chance, would John Mollo's diary mention an existing refurbished

suit being damaged during the shooting of a stunt /jump from the carbon

chamber platform?

Or in other words, if a suit was destroyed during shooting consequently to a stunt,

would there be any mention of it somewhere in the production notes (if not in

his diary)?

Jumping from the carbon chamber platform, with your head first, was not your usual trooper being

blasted and falling to the ground. So I'm sure this one stunt must have been

well prepared and possibly documented non?

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Jez,

by chance, would John Mollo's diary mention an existing refurbished

suit being damaged during the shooting of a stunt /jump from the carbon

chamber platform?

Or in other words, if a suit was destroyed during shooting consequently to a stunt,

would there be any mention of it somewhere in the production notes (if not in

his diary)?

Jumping from the carbon chamber platform, with your head first, was not your usual trooper being

blasted and falling to the ground. So I'm sure this one stunt must have been

well prepared and possibly documented non?

Im sure it would have been documented somewhere but it wasnt in any of JM's notes. I presume something like this would be logged by the propmaster. I remember a RotJ topper helmet I inspected a few years back was used by Bill Horrigan (sp?), one of the stunt guys and he did all kinds of damage to that, but I recall it being logged by the woman responsible for signing them in/out (i dont remember her name)

Cheers

Jez

 

[GINO]

Thanks for quoting my images off my website.Your mistake is that you're presuming there wasnt additional pages of info from John?. As far as fuzzy memories these were recorded in his diary during produciton so a lot less fuzzy than your thinking right now.

Oh so there are additional pages then? :rolleyes
Well perhaps you could explain to all of us here what possible reason you would have for showing the ones you have shown, but then withholding these supposed key pages?

LOL so are you telling me that LFL gave you free reign over the archives. If so then maybe its fair to post photographic proof as "physical evidence" :lol

I don't know if I would say free reign, but yes I got to physically handle everything I was interested in checking out (which as you can imagine was a quite a bit).


.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Gino, you're so far behind the play on this. You're trying to claim to have inside knowledge on meetings I had with John Mollo. I checked the date of that update on my site, Oct 3rd '09 - 2 years ago. I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll find the time soon to update my site then you can read and maybe understand a little more on the subject

I'm glad that you spent a whole day at the archive. However you've still a bit of catching up to do compared with some of us here

Cheers

Jez

 

[GINO]

You're trying to claim to have inside knowledge on meetings I had with John Mollo.

I never said anything of the sort.

I'm glad that you spent a whole day at the archive. However you've still a bit of catching up to do compared with some of us here

I'd like to know who that would be. Certainly not you by a long shot.


Cheers


.

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

I never said anything of the sort.




I'd like to know who that would be. Certainly not you by a long shot.


Cheers


.

Yes you did, you repeated a report that I had published concerning interviews I'd had with John Mollo - yet suggested you had some additional or inside information :thumbsdown

And if you think one partial day in the archive has provided you with more quality access than Ive had over the last 8 years then you really are losing it :lol

Come back in a few years junior! :cool

Cheers

Jez