Recasting - what can I do ????

[RBJ]

..I started the 58 page thread on the 501st legion board attempting to get them to institute a strickter policy on recasting..that they have now locked..it led to a vote by the legion council withch was voted down ( or so I am told, regular members have no access to those forums)

To answer your question as to what you can do to combat recasting in the 501st...I can only think of two things:

-attempt to educate as many as you can within the 501st..but as it was said, this at times is like screaming into a jet engine

or

-leave the 501st..


I am leaning toward the latter personaly..

 

[Too Much Garlic]

..I started the 58 page thread on the 501st legion board attempting to get them to institute a strickter policy on recasting..that they have now locked..it led to a vote by the legion council withch was voted down ( or so I am told, regular members have no access to those forums)
To answer your question as to what you can do to combat recasting in the 501st...I can only think of two things:
-attempt to educate as many as you can within the 501st..but as it was said, this at times is like screaming into a jet engine
or
-leave the 501st..
I am leaning toward the latter personaly..

The latter doesn't solve the problem as they come here and buy stuff and take back to their own community. Why should WE suffer because they have a lack of solidarity to the providers of their hobby?

 

[RBJ]

Carsten,

I have been in the 501st fighting the good fight for a while...belive me when I say NOTHING will change with thier recasting policy...ever..

..while leaving acomplishes nothing, it is compeletly disheartening and frustrating to see the blatant disregard for the prop comunities code of ethics by the "worlds largest star wars costuming group"..

... while I am not a prop maker or seller, I would seriously reconsider selling to any 501st member if I were...

 

[Too Much Garlic]

Oh, it wasn't an attack on you, my friend. Sorry if it sounded that way.

 

[RBJ]

..Oh.. it did'nt sound like an attack..just wanted to clarify :thumbsup :love

 

[Bountyhunter Niko]

Well it seems nothing can be done. I should have known, but I thought I would try.

The recasting being done isn't much cheaper then a set from AP.

Also I will be interested to know what happens very soon. The same squad is doing a group order from MC. The command staff guy in that squad is good personal friends with MC. I wonder if he will take such a positive stance on recasting when one of his friends gets ripped off.......

Oh well - my fight continues.

 

[RBJ]

..I gave up and quit the 501st today...good luck to you :thumbsup

 

[blownhemi]

I don't understand, honestly, how recasting can be morally justified. :confused

The way I figure it, is that the people buying the recast stuff are just out to save a buck so greed is the driving force, which supplants the little voice in the back of their head telling them it is wrong. And I believe that it has support because no one wants to be alone with that voice. But when you have a group of like minded people, then it gets easier. Same basic point as Lord of the Flies. Alone it's harder to justify, but a mob mentality makes it so much easier to go with the flow, morals be damned!

 

[FON]

I assume this is the fellow your talking about Niko?

http://www.501stlegion.org/members/displaymemberdetails.php?userID=10417

I posted a thread over on your 501st forum...funny thing is it was deleted within the first 4min of being put up. No word or anything... they like to keep things under the carpet there.

 

[EVO3]

When it comes to recasting, the 501st is very hypocritical. On one hand, they say that they cannot associate with prop makers in any way. So therefore, they cannot institute any kind of Anti recasting policy in their charter. Doing so would put their relationship with LFL at risk causing LFL to shut them down.

Meanwhile, they do allow prop builders to openly do armor runs on their boards. Now if they were so scared of LFL associating them with prop builders, then they shouldnt allow armor sales on their boards either, but they do.

Heres an exact quote by Albin (501st's LCO)..........

i find it very hard to believe original casters can prove that to the degree that recasters, especially selling for less in some cases, could be seen as any less noble.

It's like calling the cops about someone stealing your pot. C'mon. We're all intellectual thieves, really and you know the saying about honor among thieves.

The 501st Legion's mission doesn't include this realm of activity, period. Keep it to trooping, making friends, partying, doing good for the community, impressing the ladies, and meeting the stars.

His view on the recasting issue is poison. It spreads to all the new members that are joining the group.

Heres another quote from a member of my own squad. It shows how the mentality of the 501st is starting to change.

I am not knocking anything that you do Andy. I don't have a bad thing at all to say about what you produce. But if you were charging an exorbitant amount of money for something you make, and someone came along and made it better for less, I'd go to them. Supply and demand. Undercutters will always rule the marketplace.

It truly is sad. There is plenty that the 501st CAN do. I just feel that they already know that if some "anti recasting" policy was set in place, there would be some high ranking members coming down.

 

[Tan Djarka]

The simple solution is to get LFL involved. That'd show 'em! There'd be nothing to recast. Of course, there'd be nothing else either, except for officially licensed product. The fact of the matter is, if you expect LFL (or any rights holder for that matter) to turn a blind toward <ahem> "legitimate" vendors, they in turn have to do the same for recasters, regardless of the perceived moral implications.

I'm not defending recasting, per se, but if you're trying to defend unlicensed products over "illicit" copies of said unlicensed product, you're really just splitting hairs.

 

[Bountyhunter Niko]

The simple solution is to get LFL involved. That'd show 'em! There'd be nothing to recast. Of course, there'd be nothing else either, except for officially licensed product. The fact of the matter is, if you expect LFL (or any rights holder for that matter) to turn a blind toward <ahem> "legitimate" vendors, they in turn have to do the same for recasters, regardless of the perceived moral implications.

I'm not defending recasting, per se, but if you're trying to defend unlicensed products over "illicit" copies of said unlicensed product, you're really just splitting hairs.

And this is the great 'grey' area that most of the 501st love to sit in.

 

[Tan Djarka]

And this is the great 'grey' area that most of the 501st love to sit in.

I'd venture to say it's the grey area most of us BELIEVE we're in. Either it's licensed or it's not, and that's pretty black and white.

 

[rollerboi]

I'm sick of the 501st attitude on recasting, and will not reactivate my membership so long as people think that because it's so black and white, everything on the "wrong" end is morally and ethically justifible on the same level.

Those who argue the benefits of recasting from a licensing and marketplace viewpoint are completely missing the concept of a community, and do not belong on the RPF. And quite frankly, I think just about all of the 501st should be painted with this brush, since it's gone on for so long and the attitude is so prevalent even among the "upper echelon".

And those of you *****ing about being judged, or guilt by association, you need to be aware that it's been common knowledge that the 501st supports recasting for long enough. You've had ample opportunity to evaluate where you stand on a moral, ethical, and community-relevant level, and plenty of time to take appropriate action.

What's the quote, something like evil prevails when good men fail to take action?

Don't like it? Then be a force for change, as that change is only going to come from pressure within.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Okay, let me put this in the terms as I understand it:

Recaster: "It's stolen anyway, so what's wrong with stealing it again?"

Anti-recaster: "How dare you steal from me what I stole, when I put so much effort into stealing it in the first place?"

Whether it's easy or difficult, it's still stealing.

That an organization officially, or by inaction, condones either practice is up to them. It's up to you to draw your moral lines, and if necessary quit and/or distance yourselves from that organization. But keep in mind, the choice of one transgression over the other leaves you on morally shaky ground, as neither is correct in absolute terms.

 

[EVO3]

The simple solution is to get LFL involved. That'd show 'em! There'd be nothing to recast. Of course, there'd be nothing else either, except for officially licensed product. The fact of the matter is, if you expect LFL (or any rights holder for that matter) to turn a blind toward <ahem> "legitimate" vendors, they in turn have to do the same for recasters, regardless of the perceived moral implications.

I'm not defending recasting, per se, but if you're trying to defend unlicensed products over "illicit" copies of said unlicensed product, you're really just splitting hairs.

Yes, in a way you are defending recasters.

GL knows whats going on. Hes not stupid. As long as prop makers are not making mad money, i really dont think hes worried about it. If he was, he wouldve Vero'ed all of SFP Ebay sales a long time ago, and he obviously hasnt done that. So please, stop bringing up the IP thing.

This is a simple case of right and wrong. The fact that Niko has stated that recasting is running rampant in his group is a testimony to how much worse things are getting within the 501st. Its not the first time ive heard of COs' involved in recasting, and im sure it wont be the last. The 501st LCS just chooses to turn their backs on the problem. Why?

Niko, keep up the good fight. As a prop builder, i do appreciate what you are doing.

 

[Tan Djarka]

Those who argue the benefits of recasting from a licensing and marketplace viewpoint are completely missing the concept of a community, and do not belong on the RPF.

Can you elaborate on this point, as I am having a difficult time making a moral distinction between recasting and a run of unlicensed product (for the benefit of the community).

 

[CTF]

Recasting sucks.

Stop defending them.

 

[EVO3]

Anti-recaster: "How dare you steal from me what I stole, when I put so much effort into stealing it in the first place?"

Whether it's easy or difficult, it's still stealing.

what i and most other prop builders do, is "create" that which does not exist in the real world. Its not "stealing" as you put it.

One thing i love about these sorts of threads is, it makes me aware of who i can and cannot trust. Just added another name on my list.

 

[FON]

I agree. The 501st has severely pushed things out of reach for most common collectors. Now its more about who you know behind the scenes. The 'open' community aspect, is on its knees, and dying out.

There are good ppl in the 501st. But they are too few in between.

Its sad to think. But I believe the good 'ol days of this hobby are behind us...