Some SW props up for auction at Christie's (UK) December

[GINO]

I'm just glad to see that some poor unsuspecting sap isn't going to spend an unwarranted amount of money at a Christies auction under the assumption that this was a production made piece. And also most likely without the knowledge that it had been cast and passed around before going up for sale.

Important things to know before dropping some major cash.

 

[JRX]

I'm just glad to see that some poor unsuspecting sap isn't going to spend an unwarranted amount of money at a Christies auction under the assumption that this was a production made piece.

... and again you have not read what was said before - IT IS NOT FOR SALE !!! :rolleyes

 

[vadermania]

... and again you have not read what was said before - IT IS NOT FOR SALE !!! :rolleyes

god, am I happy that I was the poor unsuspecting sap who won this lid from ebay...lol:lol

Never regret it for a minute.

 

[GINO]

Gino, do you believe the dome is original and not made for production or do you believe it is not original at all? What's your basis for either?

I'll try to summarize instead of writing a novel.
A raw unfinished esb vader helmet pulled from an original mold yesterday would be indistinguishable from a raw esb vader helmet pulled in '79.
It is ONLY in the finishings that would distinguish a real film used helmet from a post production casting. And this dome and its counterpart both lacked those characteristics.

Yes I believe it to be an authentic casting, but not made for the original films. In the last several months, I've come to know of more authentic castings (non screen used) floating around out there than most people know about. I have them as well as a few others.

The only thing vadermania bases his claim on is the story given to him by the guy who sold it to him. Which always starts out the same, a guy I know who worked on the film kept it in his possession for 20 years blah blah blah and now decided to sell it off...

Anyone with access to this kind of casting and a creative backstory could put one of these up for auction as an original and most people would never know the difference. Like I said, the ONLY way to know for sure if a piece was made for the films is in the finishings.

And since this piece was obtained in a finished state, completely different than any of the originals made at that time, you cannot state with any kind of certainty that it is original.

Anyone who thinks so, I have a few originals sitting around that I could sell you. :rolleyes

 

[darthvaderv]

To clarify..The inside dome puck is missing as was the hat fixing mech on the faceplate..

Well we all know it's an authentic pull...Everything apart from those inner items were the same right down to the fibreglass patterns..Exteriorly it is identical as the screen used..

And as I said before all auctions in the past have always almost certainly had suspicion and mystery over the pieces..Just like for a quick example..the Don Bies repaint..ANH cape..etc..etc..

If Tom ever sells it he could have a paint expert analyse the dome paint which should give an accurate indication of it's age :thumbsup..

 

[vadermania]

I'll try to summarize instead of writing a novel.
A raw unfinished esb vader helmet pulled from an original mold yesterday would be indistinguishable from a raw esb vader helmet pulled in '79.

Wrong. What you have written there only proves that you have no proper knowledge of materials, especially fibreglass, gelcoat and fabrication techniques.

It is ONLY in the finishings that would distinguish a real film used helmet from a post production casting. And this dome and its counterpart both lacked those characteristics.

Wrong. My dome is finished exactly the way the originals are - except the missing "dome puck". The faceplate is not in question here but it was also finished the correct way, although it might have been done in a hurry because the base paint and the pigments in the gunmetal were not mixed properly, which resulted in a specled look of the paint.

Yes I believe it to be an authentic casting, but not made for the original films. In the last several months, I've come to know of more authentic castings (non screen used) floating around out there than most people know about. I have them as well as a few others.

Are you talking about recent pulls from "new original" molds or are you referring to the numerous "souvenir" pulls that have been made during the production of the OT?

The only thing vadermania bases his claim on is the story given to him by the guy who sold it to him. Which always starts out the same, a guy I know who worked on the film kept it in his possession for 20 years blah blah blah and now decided to sell it off...

Do you really think that I am that stupid, Gino? Let me tell you again, I am extremely amused by your desperate attempts...I am happy to compare my lid to every other original screen-used or production-made ESB lid on this planet.

Anyone with access to this kind of casting and a creative backstory could put one of these up for auction as an original and most people would never know the difference. Like I said, the ONLY way to know for sure if a piece was made for the films is in the finishings.

And since this piece was obtained in a finished state, completely different than any of the originals made at that time, you cannot state with any kind of certainty that it is original.

Anyone who thinks so, I have a few originals sitting around that I could sell you. :rolleyes

Gino, let me give you an advice from "expert to expert": you should really do YOUR homework first before you even try to challenge me.

 

[GINO]

Well we all know it's an authentic pull...Everything apart from those inner items were the same right down to the fibreglass patterns..

Fiberglass patterns? :lol

Exteriorly it is identical as the screen used..

Yeah, but there's quite a few of those sources floating around.

And as I said before all auctions in the past have always almost certainly had suspicion and mystery over the pieces..Just like for a quick example..the Don Bies repaint..ANH cape..etc..etc..

That doesn't justify anything in my opinion.

If Tom ever sells it he could have a paint expert analyse the dome paint which should give an accurate indication of it's age :thumbsup..

Maybe someone here knows someone at NASA that could help him out with that. :lol

 

[GINO]

Tom, here's some advice to you.

Be happy you got a hold of an authentic casting. Enjoy it with all your friends posting here who you gave copies to. You'll never have the knowledge of how the originals were finished, what was used, etc.. and I'm glad for that.

It's when people start to cross that line of making claims that their authentic casting is an original when approaching major auction houses like Christie's that gets them into trouble.

 

[vadermania]

Maybe someone here knows someone at NASA that could help him out with that. :lol

Well, maybe you know someone?

Besides, I would really appreciate if you could help me with your extensive knowledge about Vader lids to authenticate my helmet...that should be an easy task for you. Maybe we discover some very interesting things together...would be worth a try.

 

[GINO]

Besides, I would really appreciate if you could help me with your extensive knowledge about Vader lids to authenticate my helmet...that should be an easy task for you. Maybe we discover some very interesting things together...would be worth a try.

Glad you asked. Here goes.
My official opinion of your helmet is that it was an authentic raw casting made by one of the several sources out there for such a helmet, finished up incorrectly, and then sold off on ebay with a made up backstory to push its credibility.

With all the huge amounts that original SW pieces have gathered at auctions over the recent years, there's no way the person was so thoughtless to have sold a complete finished production made vader helmet on ebay for a mere few thousand when they could have sold it at a major auction house for tens of thousands.
There are reasons it was sold on ebay and not anywhere else.

 

[JRX]

Maybe someone here knows someone at NASA that could help him out with that. :lol

Welcome to the 21st century, Gino ...
... just around the corner from where I live http://www.sfg.s.bw.schule.de/fachschule/fl/

 

[vadermania]

Tom, here's some advice to you.

Be happy you got a hold of an authentic casting. Enjoy it with all your friends posting here who you gave copies to.

Thanks. I do that every day.

You'll never have the knowledge of how the originals were finished, what was used, etc.. and I'm glad for that.

Gino, I am happy that this is your opinion about me. Makes me feel pretty comfortable. I don't see any reason then to post more pics of myself handling and examining original screen-used Vader lids.

It's when people start to cross that line of making claims that their authentic casting is an original when approaching major auction houses like Christie's that gets them into trouble.

I never said anything else but the truth about the backstory of my helmet - how I aquired it, what the previous owner said it is - no more, no less. Not screen-used, but made for the production and used as a lighting reference on set. Unless YOU PROVE me wrong, THIS IS the backstory of the helmet. And anything YOU claim without proof will be regarded as pure theory by me.

 

[GINO]

I would say burdon of proof is on the one approaching the major auction house and quite frankly, the backstory you received from the original seller (which is all you have) sounds like mud.

 

[vadermania]

Glad you asked. Here goes.
My official opinion of your helmet is that it was an authentic raw casting made by one of the several sources out there for such a helmet, finished up incorrectly, and then sold off on ebay with a made up backstory to push its credibility.

With all the huge amounts that original SW pieces have gathered at auctions over the recent years, there's no way the person was so thoughtless to have sold a complete finished production made vader helmet on ebay for a mere few thousand when they could have sold it at a major auction house for tens of thousands.
There are reasons it was sold on ebay and not anywhere else.

Is that your "official opinion" about it? I should have expected more from you. It's just an OPINION, Gino - that's what it is.

I bought things for my collection in the past from people who had no clue what it really was - they even gave me high $$$ props as a gift!

And you still seem to ignore that my lid wasn't finished incorrectly....

gotta go now to attend a production meeting. See you tomorrow.

 

[GINO]

And you still seem to ignore that my lid wasn't finished incorrectly....

The fact that you think that it was completely proves my point.

 

[darthvaderv]

No doubt the saga concludes tomorrow then..

At least it's kinda civil..:thumbsup

 

[vadermania]

The fact that you think that it was completely proves my point.

The fact that you have only limited knowledge of what I'm talking about proves mine.

 

[Ging]

I would say burdon of proof is on the one approaching the major auction house and quite frankly, the backstory you received from the original seller (which is all you have) sounds like mud.

Can I ask why you have faith in Christie's being expert at Star Wars identification ? They have mis-identified items I have purchased through them, albiet to my advantage. And other board members might share their experience they have had which, again, has shown that they are not proficinet in identifying/understanding genuine Star Wars artifacts.

This is academic anyway as the item is not up for auction. I did say in my orignal post it was not a certainty to be up for auction.

The reason it was not submitted for auction is irrelevant. I turned down the option to consign some items purely based on the ludicrous estimate offered.

Don't feel that this is a confrontational post, but you have mentioned twice Christe's twice as an authority on validating Star Wars props. Having dealt with them personaly I do not have faith in their knowledge on these items.

 

[RKW]

Witness the future Boba Fett fans :lol

I'll give it 3yrs after the release of the MR bucket before we all witness the same BS arguments.

Time to polish those domes gents
:rolleyes

 

[lambotour]

A raw unfinished esb vader helmet pulled from an original mold yesterday would be indistinguishable from a raw esb vader helmet pulled in '79.

I'll have to disagree with that statement. Over time everything has an aging process. Depending on climate conditions, over a 20 or 30 year span, fiberglass will change in its' structural properties and strength. In the right hands with the required research and tests, it would be very easy to determine whether a casting was made yesterday or 30 years ago.

So, unless you know everything there is about the TM, I wouldn't base its' authenticity on opinion.

Just my 5 cents.