Staff of Ra Head Piece

[VonMagnum]

The worst part with the BAM one I ordered is the guy lowered the price on his next BAM one (apparently he's selling multiple ones even though he listed only one at a time?) to $20 shipped. Great, take $5 off after I bought one at $25.

Even worse, he still hasn't shipped the darn thing 5 days later (listed as pre-shipment label only). I'm expected to wait however long the seller feels like taking to ship something, but when the tables are turned, it can be almost funny in a way (see below *** if interested in a couple of examples including a Hellraiser Lament prop box).

Serenity - Is that second set of pictures still the BAM one on the left of each picture because I have to say it looks far from terrible (the left facing one looks particularly good, not quite as detailed as the RM one and the braid is not right, but the price difference is large even for a new one, let alone a used one at $20-25. I got it mostly as an example of the red opaque stone rather than accuracy (most people visiting my home theater room aren't going to know jack about the pieces anyway so it's more of a conversation piece. Most people I've talked to at work, etc. didn't even notice there was a difference between the medallions in the bar/map room scenes versus the Imam scene.

Frankly, none of mine are as "detailed' as the RM version, but I'm happy that $48 one I bought looks almost as good as that auction one that went for $60k (an outrageous price, IMO, but what do I know? People love to think a prop was closer to the film, but I don't call a staff gift terribly close other than using one of their molds, not in the "that's the one that you see on-screen!" sense anyway). But something is worth what people are willing to pay, I suppose.


*** Just as an eBay example case in the other direction, I have to deal with a seller on my case about not returning some other electronic item (an amplifier) faster (found it was not working one day after it arrived and it's been all of two days now total and me being not used to returning things on eBay as I've never had to before didn't know a defective item is supposed to have the return shipping by the seller (two people including the shipping guy told me that) and when I informed this guy of that he wanted to do a partial refund and asked what I thought would be fair then didn't agree with my amount and complained that I haven't shipped it back already (yeah make me pay $80 in shipping when his rate is $54) for the same item with a discount eBay sellers apparently get) and is acting shiftier by the minute so I will turn it over to eBay to deal with him). I'm usually a fairly trusting guy with commerce, but I'm learning pretty fast that's a bad idea.

Second example (this one is a prop so more on-topic here), I just bought a Hellraiser box (the brass inlay version from the Puzzle Box shop used; I already had a new "decal" version from there for ~$50 that looks good from a distance, but obviously not like the movie one close-up as the wood doesn't show and there's no inlays, just a glorified sticker)) for $105 in "good condition" and the seller hid the damaged corner in every photo he took either by putting his hand over that corner or having it out of frame (corner is flattened slightly like it hit the ground on that corner and the lacquer is clouded and the very edge of a brass inlay is exposed. I let him know what I thought about that practice and he said to return it for a full refund. The damage could be largely fixed good enough with minimal bother (a little filler on the corner with some black paint over it and lacquer it and the brass bit down afterward) so I don't want to return it as it's just going to be displayed under a case where you wouldn't even notice it if I didn't do any repair, but just let him know what I think about hiding damage that the buyer is clearly going to find as soon as they get it...ridiculous. I realize "good" doesn't mean "like new" but how would you know when they avoid showing it in the photo? The cube was almost half off the price of a new one, but I still would have liked to know the damage ahead of time.

My point is many sellers wouldn't get stuck with return shipping if they didn't hide the true condition in the first place. Now maybe that amp above was just at its time in life (being used), but I don't call a one day failure of an amplifier to be "excellent condition". Most shops even without implied warranties would take care of something if it didn't work after less than a day. Worse yet, I'm guessing it's just something loose based on the turn on noise (I have two degrees in electronics, so it sure wouldn't hurt for me to just look first and save us both a hassle), but he doesn't want me "tampering" with it or he says he won't refund at all. Yeah, taking a case off a 20+ year old amp isn't "tampering" in my book, but OK. That just means I HAVE to return it (or make it worth my while not to since he's going to have to get it repaired to resell it one way or another and it likely won't be under $150 either.

 

[Serenity]

Serenity - Is that second set of pictures still the BAM one on the left of each picture because I have to say it looks far from terrible (the left facing one looks particularly good, not quite as detailed as the RM one and the braid is not right, but the price difference is large even for a new one, let alone a used one at $20-25. I got it mostly as an example of the red opaque stone rather than accuracy (most people visiting my home theater room aren't going to know jack about the pieces anyway so it's more of a conversation piece. Most people I've talked to at work, etc. didn't even notice there was a difference between the medallions in the bar/map room scenes versus the Imam scene.

Yep, they’re in the same alignment with the Bam one on the left and Relicmaker on right. It’s a good value piece, especially at the current used prices and adding the ink wash greatly improved its looks. I was just disappointed in the poor quality control with that chunk of metal stuck over the lettering on the one side. I think I’m going to have it with the beak facing the left and leave my Relicmaker piece facing to the right. The braid on the outside isn’t very accurate, but it is what it is.

I hope you get yours soon!

 

[VonMagnum]

Am I crazy to think looking at the Profiles in History Auction page from 2007 (http://www.originalprop.com/blog/wp...s-in-history-hollywood-auction-27-catalog.jpg) that the Staff of Ra Medallion they sold for $60,000 and appears to be authenticated to be the one actually used on the screen (unless I'm reading it wrong) in the Imam scene is NOT the one actually used?

The scene in the movie clearly has at least a semi-transparent crystal in it (obviously amber on the Blu-Ray and amber again where Sallah looks at it with Indy). The one in the auction at least "appears" to be an opaque red crystal, which I don't believe I saw used anywhere noticeable in the film (where it's sitting still, at least; I don't know about angles where someone is moving it about). Without having seen it in person, I suppose it's possible that it's not actually opaque, but just appears that way in the photos due to the background and lighting used, but then that would mean the opaque red ones sold by Reel Art and the BAM Box versions are using actual opaque rocks instead of transparent red ones, but other than the light shining onto the city in the map room, I see no evidence of an actual "red crystal" in the movie itself.

The pamphlet scenes attached to the auction are incorrect as well as they show scenes from the map room which use the "Raven Bar" version in the film and are a completely different headpiece. The one scene from the "Imam" scene looks like it shows a redder shade than the Blu-Ray (how coincidentally helpful when you're trying to pass it off as the screen used version).

I'm not saying there weren't versions with the red crystal made by Lucasfilm/ILM (by the sounds of it there were, but whether they are claimed to have screen time is another matter, IMO) and that is certainly a very detailed one shown and I wouldn't trust the color based on how much gold seems to change in different lightning, especially if it's polished/reflective, but it's hard to imagine them removing the jewel and changing it after the movie was finished just for the heck of it, but other than the cast light from the Map room onto the city, I see no evidence in the film that red was used anywhere at all, that is unless the color grade of the film is so far off from reality that reds were turned into amber in at least some of the scenes. Now in the bar, it's hard to tell from some angles in that dark lightning, but there are spots where you can tell it's amber too.

I dunno. Reading those articles just struck me as something being wrong there the first time and reading them again and checking the Blu-Ray yet again confirms to me that I saw no verifiably red opaque version in the film so unless they switched it from cut scene to cut scene in places where it's hard to tell due to lightning...but I can't imagine why they'd bother. Sorry if this has been discussed before or if I'm way off base. I've just been comparing the different versions again and trying to see if that one I have that appears to be an Acme really is, etc. and got to comparing from the article again.

I think my point is that I don't know that I'd trust ANY auction for a "screen time" version when hundreds (thousands?) have been made from the original molds or derivations thereof that are close to if not as detailed. Given some of the issues I've read about Lucasfilm studios and props possibly dropped like the original fertility idol, well... You wouldn't get $60k out of me for a signature on a piece of paper that says it's an original screen time version when the jewel appears to be wrong. Maybe I'm just poor, cheap or both, but I wouldn't pay that much for the ark used in the movie when a pretty fair visual replica can be made for around $1500-5000 depending on how much you're willing to do yourself and whether it's painted or plated. But then millionaires (let alone billionaires) often have money to burn.

It looks like they're taking orders on Replica Props Dot Com again (backorder) at $120 and it does indeed look like the newer one I got off eBay except it's cleaner and the jewel looks a bit different with the mirrored back in the photo (prettier from the front, but obviously wouldn't let any light through; mine is transparent so no back, but that doesn't mean it's not an Acme one as they do remove it on request. The details certainly look similar, but I think some of the plating has worn on mine a bit on the bird's body. I tried wiping it, but it's not dirt or paint. The body in the photo looks grey and I think that's because the Pewter is showing there underneath. The one I have that appears to be a 3rd/4th generation casting of an original mold is less yellow looking and quite even in the coating with loads more feather detail save that odd tail feather area as discussed earlier which matches another auction piece's tail feather as mentioned).

I certainly wouldn't mind having a mirrored crystal version as the jewel just looks "better" that way from the front, IMO, but I don't know if I want to spend another $120 (or closer to $100 if they still have the 10% discount) just for that one detail when I appear to already own one, especially when I don't have a Raven Bar version yet.

 

[VonMagnum]

OK, I know I'm going to sound stupid here, but Google is unbelievably useless to find the answer and keeps bringing up results about casting for TV shows or Chrome cast, etc. etc. no matter how many more words I attach (movie prop, metal, gold, medallion, etc.) What exactly does "second generation casting" or "third generation casting" mean? Is a third generation casting a mold made twice removed from previous items (e.g. Relicmaker's Staff of Ra medallion is made from a mold that was created from an Elstree medallion and thus a second generation mold that then one assumes makes second generation medallions) or does it mean it's the third production run made from the same mold? (i.e. Batch 1 of 30 medallions is the 1st generation, later another 30 made would be the second generation, etc.) or even the number of items made from a mold (I'd assume that's a 'pressing' like with record album stampers). It's hard to find the definitions online for some reason.

 

[Duncanator]

The generations of a casting are a way of denoting how many times it's been re-molded. Like making a photocopy of a photocopy - the more "generations" down the "family tree" a casting is, the more potential loss of accuracy there has been.

For example:
If I have a casting from the original studio mold of the prop, then that is a 1st generation casting. If I make a new mold from that casting, then the castings that come out of my new mold are 2nd generation castings. Now if I take a 2nd generation casting and make a mold of it, then that mold puts out 3rd generation castings. And so on...
Of course, every time a casting is cleaned up and a new mold is made from it, there are losses of accuracy that compound the further down the generations we go. The successive generations tend to get smaller and smaller due to the shrinkage when resins and silicones cure. New flaws get introduced (scratches, fingerprints, warpage, detail accidentally sanded away or filled in, and sometimes resculpting of areas) and are repeated in each new generation.

Silicone molds don't last forever. Typically one can expect to get 30 or so castings out of a mold before it starts to degrade, dry out or tear. That is why pieces get remolded. Smart manufacturers keep an original part (a "mold master") so when they need to make new molds, they are still making 1st generation parts, but that is not typically how the fan-world works.

 

[VonMagnum]

Duncanator - Thanks.

 

[VonMagnum]

I received my Bam Box version today. Yes, it's definitely larger than the other ones. I couldn't help but notice the Acme Artifacts version is also a different size than the one that is a supposed 3rd or 4th generation mold from the originals. The Acme version looked like it almost lined up with the Bam Box one except for the Bam Box braid which looked rather large in diameter by comparison. The 3rd/4th gen original was smaller than either of those two (very noticeable compared to the Bam Box version, far less so next to the Acme one. If it was 8mm for Bam box compared to the original (an assumption/estimate based on the RM version measurements provided above compared to it), the Acme one's overall diameter was probably 2-4mm larger (and thus 4-6mm smaller than the Bam Box), I'd have to get a ruler to see exactly. I think the braid differences had a lot to do with it in both cases, but I do think the Bam Box medallion size is also a bit larger overall. It definitely looks larger. It has pretty decent definition on it, but it's hard to photograph it because it's so darn shiny/polished "new" looking. I can see why someone might want to age that one.

That 3rd/4th Gen casting I have just looks older and has extreme definition on the feathers (the glare actually covers it up in previous photos as I've got another angle photos that shows it's even everywhere but the tail feather (see below attached photos), which as someone pointed out was probably modified by hand on that one mold as it looks quite distinct and very much like that one photo. Sadly, the guy I bought it off of had no idea who made it and didn't share where/how he got it, but from a price perspective that was very good as I only paid $48 for one that is probably more authentic and definitely more detailed than any of the others. It's so good, actually I don't really feel any urge to get a RM version of the IMAM medallion even if it's more perfect. The "old" look actually gives it a more believable "it's old" feel than a bright shiny new one without having to use ink or watercolor paint to 'age' it.

Front/Back (different angles) of 3rd/4th casting original (on the right of first two attached photos) followed by the new Bam Box one (left) and a German edition (right) and then the Acme version on a Landron stand.

I've got a Hasbro 1/6 scale Ark of the Covenant coming next....

 

[VonMagnum]

My next Staff of Ra medallion (#6) is on its way....

 

[mrwax]

My next Staff of Ra medallion (#6) is on its way....

And my girlfriend asked me "Don't you already have one of those?", referring to my wonderful Nazi headpiece after I bought the other two RelicMaker headpieces haha. I'm really enjoying seeing all of these versions, some are quite impressive especially for the price!

 

[VonMagnum]

And my girlfriend asked me "Don't you already have one of those?", referring to my wonderful Nazi headpiece after I bought the other two RelicMaker headpieces haha.

It does seem like more fun when you feel like you're getting a good deal (e.g. Acme Imam + Landron holder for $50 (new one is $120 without the normally $35 shipped holder), $48 for the 3rd/4th Gen unknown cast (no idea actual value) with the modified tail feather, $45 for the "German" (boy it likes to censor the word there) + another Landron holder (normally $85 for both) and $25 for the Bam Box version (normally $50). I think the plastic Imam version ($35) seems like the crapper in the bunch now (first one I bought).

This one coming is a Relic Maker (more than all the rest combined price wise, but the only other "Raven Bar" version I saw was a resin/painted one from Germany that looked OK in the photos, but I don't think I'd be happy with another plasticky one). I don't like the "Reel Art" versions (dimpled inward bird scale/feathers just seems so wrong to me) so I never even looked for one (although you couldn't not see them on eBay and Etsy there's so many for sale). Most of the others I've seen don't come up for sale much (long out of production).

I'm really enjoying seeing all of these versions, some are quite impressive especially for the price!

I'm glad someone is enjoying seeing them. The lack of responses made me feel like I was talking to myself, really. I posted a thread on my whole home theater build with props and got like 89 views in two days and not a single comment or "like" so I've been wondering if anyone liked it at all. This isn't really a home theater site, of course, but I probably spent $1.5K-2K on props the past few months to decorate the (mostly finished) room (really trying not to count how much exactly; it's a bit depressing when I think about it. I keep thinking maybe I should have went with the wall-to-wall drapes instead.... ).

 

[JamesM242]

I have enjoyed the thread immensely and am contemplating how best to age the headpiece I have. It looks great, but after seeing the above, it is too "brand new" - not sure I am brave enough to try the India Ink technique, but may try some water based paints to highlight the sculpt and give it a distressed look.

 

[VonMagnum]

I have enjoyed the thread immensely and am contemplating how best to age the headpiece I have. It looks great, but after seeing the above, it is too "brand new" - not sure I am brave enough to try the India Ink technique, but may try some water based paints to highlight the sculpt and give it a distressed look.

Yeah, I didn't think I'd want to 'age' any, but that Bam Box one is definitely MEGA shiny and brand new looking. The others already seem to have some wear to them. I'd prefer them to look closer to the movie version rather than 2000 years old, but the Bam Box version is the one I'd be willing to play with given the low cost I bought it for ($25 shipped). I could play with the plastic one, I suppose to test, but I think inks and water colors might behave a little different with plastics and resins than gold plating. Even if it looked a little better, its weight alone makes it seem cheap even if it is highly detailed (oddly its tail feathers aren't right either; so strange I have two with funky tail feathers; someone must have copied that messed up ILM mold more than once. )

The Acme one I have is VERY pretty/shiny without looking MEGA shiny like the Bam Box, but that's not even a wire around the edge (just molded to look like it). Despite its shiny/pretty nature, it's very lacking in detail on some of the feathers (oddly its tail feathers look decent). The gem is odd too (not real clear looking through it, yet the mirror back was clearly removed or not installed or if it is there it's only partly there as "some" light gets through, yet it looks semi-mirrored from the front and it kind of looks like there's some mirror behind it in the light on parts (partial mirror?) Really odd piece there (doesn't show in the photos).

The 'Imam' RM version I've seen photos of looked like it had a really detailed/clean wire soldered on, but some of the "real world" versions I've seen photos of weren't quite as clean in some spots. That 3rd/4th one I have is a bit messy looking around the braid in spots, but matches the photos I've seen. The solder shows through a bit. I think a little "ink" around there would improve the looks of the braid quite a bit in that regard (put some black where the solder/grey bits shine show to hide the imperfections. It's hard to say since the RM Imam photos I've seen appear to be "pre-aged" with some kind of inky blacks on the shadow areas, which makes it that much harder to compare. I really don't want to ink that version as it looks so close to the movie scene version as-is other than the tail feather detail (as shown in the 3-way comparison on the previous page). The Acme one might improve a bit in detail that way, though.

 

[VonMagnum]

I just got my RelicMaker "Raven Bar" medallion in and I'm a little bit disappointed. There's a small little break/change/something in the wire braid for some reason and the gold plating is off just a tiny bit there (see attached photo). For $275 + shipping for the staff attachment version, I kind of expected perfection. I can see some tiny tiny little lines in the tail feather that almost looks like finger nail lines across soft 24K gold. Not sure what that is, but it's minor compared to having the braid be less than perfect. Otherwise, it's quite nice. I'm not sure what the dimensions were on the Raven Bar Vs. Imam versions on the actual movie props (were they the same exact diameter?), but the Raven Bar medallion appears to be slightly larger than my "ILM" version and the Acme version by about the diameter of the rope braid. The BamBox Imam one is larger than the Raven Bar one.

 

[KramStaar]

I just got my RelicMaker "Raven Bar" medallion in and I'm a little bit disappointed. There's a small little break/change/something in the wire braid for some reason and the gold plating is off just a tiny bit there (see attached photo). For $275 + shipping for the staff attachment version, I kind of expected perfection.

Have you contacted him about this? He's always been incredibly helpful in the dealings I have had with him.

M

 

[VonMagnum]

Have you contacted him about this? He's always been incredibly helpful in the dealings I have had with him.

M

I was debating whether it's worth even bringing up as the one little spot could be touched up with a tiny bit of gold paint or something. It's pretty small. It's hard to tell exactly what's wrong with the rope braid there. It kind of looks like it got bent in slightly or something. If the finish wasn't off in that spot I would have just though it wasn't perfect in that spot (the rope braid is far from perfect on the "ILM" (for lack of a better name) version. If anything, that version has a bit too much gold plating on the rope on one side of the braid). His listing said "no returns" and other than an exchange, I don't know what else could be done, really. Everything was really well bubblewrapped, but I did notice the end of the priority box was kind of mangled (can't help but wonder if something could have gotten thrown or whatever at the post office as I've worked there before in college and know how some clerks handle things).

I've had two other bad experiences on eBay this month already (An amp I bought died the second time I used it and the guy has been hell to deal with (don't know how he ever got a 100% rating) and a Hellraiser box I bought had a damaged corner the guy hid in the photos he posted). I'm sure RM is nothing like those guys, but the words "not again" definitely popped in my head when I saw it. But this seems pretty minor and I think it's just the perfectionist in me that's disappointed.

(The Hellraiser guy just told me to return it (at the price I got it for, almost half that of a new one I wasn't going to return it and touched it up myself, but I did want him to know I didn't appreciate hiding damage in the photos as that just brings up a possible SNAD case and no one really enjoys those)). The amp guy...IMO he did misrepresent the amp entirely ("excellent condition" and "checked out to be in factory specs by a technician" and "barely used" and then threw a fit when I told him it was SNAD and keeps making low ball partial refund offers to shove the "ebay steps in" date backwards, hoping I'll drop it or something (I have no idea really as I've never had to do a return before, let alone SNAD). God I hate eBay lately.... I'm not a confrontational kind of person so it's really dragging me down emotionally to tell you the truth. I've got an Ark of the Covenant scale model coming next (NIB). I can't wait to see what happens with this one with my luck lately....

 

[VonMagnum]

I had another close look over it and noticed another problem spot. This one probably is worth bringing up as it's literally the top layer of gold plating is chipped right there (see circle near bird tail attached; it looks brighter with the photo flash, but you can see it's actually a chip missing and there's some depth to it like the gold plating was sitting 'above' the pewter layer or something. Yeah, I'm not pleased with that and I doubt that was shipping, but looks like a weak spot in the plating that didn't take right.

 

[jheilman]

Have you contacted him about this? He's always been incredibly helpful in the dealings I have had with him.

M

Bingo. I just received my second headpiece from RM and it's perfect. Contact him. Give him a chance to resolve the issue.

 

[VonMagnum]

I've sent a message to him with three photos (two without a flash that shows it differently). I'll see what he wants to do.

 

[VonMagnum]

Yes, RM was very nice about it (nice change from the other guy I've been dealing with, I'm happy to say). He told me to send it back and he'd send another one and refund the shipping cost. It's already on its way back (sent it about a half hour ago).

 

[LTsmash1200]

I was debating whether it's worth even bringing up as the one little spot could be touched up with a tiny bit of gold paint or something. It's pretty small. It's hard to tell exactly what's wrong with the rope braid there. It kind of looks like it got bent in slightly or something.

If you weren't sure whether or not it was worth bringing up, why did you bring it up here? If you have a problem with something you get from somebody, you should address it with them before you address it publicly.