Survivor: Heroes vs Villains Discussion Thread - Spoilers

[letmebestormy]

I agree with Boston Rob (and Jeff) - Russel doesn't know how to play to win. He just knows how to play to get to the end of the game. He is missing (seemingly willingly) a HUGE chunk of how to play the game. The jury is completely right to penalize him for that. In this season Russel told lies and picked fights that had literally no bearing on the game. To then crow to the jury (and America) that he doesn't care about that tells me he just doesn't get it. I'm content with the outcome. The better player won for sure.

 

[decaturvader]

We wanted Russell to win this from the very beginning. He was robbed last season.
Sandra...good grief...I really hate she won...total coat tail rider...

Outwit
Outlast
Outplay

THAT's what Russell did.
Ethics and Social game some may ask....well, he lied and manipulated the whole game...uhh, hellooooo.
Dang, he has so much foresight, the sucker might as well of been a Sith Lord for cripes sake LOL.

I was soooo let down that he continued to bully the Jury....they were just begging him to fess up, but he stood strong on his "that's how I played the game" attitude that it cost him a million bucks. Again.

He may a twisted, clever, evil little man....but he is King of Survivor.

 

[Eopie Herder]

After chewing on it a while, I can post thoughts that are a little more coherent. I'm not upset that Russell didn't win, I've known for weeks that he could not win. I was a little shocked that he did not get a single vote. I thought maybe a few. He does have amazing foresight into what will happen if he does this and that, and is usually right, except when it comes down to how the person he put on the Jury feels about him as a person and how that will work against him. I still think he is one of the best to play the game, like the Colby of before. Different ways of playing, sure, but they both have proved to be skilled in their way of playing. (At least the earlier Colby)

And because he is so fascinating to watch, naturally he won the fan vote. He is a popular player, and is likely to be asked back the next time they do a show like this or fan favorites and favorites vs. fans. Thing is, now everyone knows his game, and he will not last long at all. I was somewhat surprised that he lived up to his original alliance and took Parvati to the end, but he did know, as did the others, that Jerri easily could have won as she may have ridden some coat tails, but she did also perform well and didn't **** anyone off. And to me, she is the player that deserved to win this year. That is the only thing I found disappointing is that she didn't make it to the final three where she could have had a legitimate shot. As someone I used to loath, she really was very likable this year and I thought she played well.

It was a fantastic season, really engaging and I can't wait for next season!

 

[DoubleD]

I'm not surprised by the vote at all. Once I saw who the final 3 were, it seemed logical that Sandra would win. Russel simply made too many enemies, Parvati while a strong player, isn't well liked enough to get enough of the votes, so Sandra wins.
The way Survivor is played, the strongest player wants to take a weaker one with them in an effort to control the votes, but it seems to backfire a lot. The strong player wins immunity challenges, orchestrates the blind siding at tribal counsels, manipulates people, etc. That leads to jaded jury members who are looking for revenge.
The coat tail rider may be the weaker player, but doesn't have a cloud of negativity hanging over them. To me, that gets overlooked as it is clear emotions play a big factor into who gets the million dollars.
That being said, if anyone got robbed last night, it was Parvati, not Russel.

 

[TallDarkandDisfigured]

they really need to get back to 2 finalists. Then Sandra wouldn't even have been a factor.

The self proclaimed "Queen of Survivor" has won twice by not playing the game. I would have been just as upset if by some odd chance Colby had won.

As for the votes, I think Russell had 2 votes going into final tribal, but shot himself in the foot with his mouth. Jerri and JT both would have voted for him had he been a little more humble.

But the problem as has been said before is that these people are still all bum hurt from getting beaten at the game and vote for the nice guy/gal who wouldn't have been there without the help of the "Bad guy" sitting next to them..

I was cheering for Russell from day 1 but I agree that the person who really got robbed last night was Parvatti.

 

[KnightAsylum]

I am not suprised at all - and very happy that Russel did not win, this show has always been about who was best at the the game and part of the game is not making ever member of the jury hate you. Russell (and the folks that think he is "robbed)" seem to overlook this key game point which is more important then almost any other aspect of the game,. He thinks that being a lair and two-faced makes him the best. No. The best is the one that gets the final votes. The winner - who is never Russell because he does not GET the game.
i am not a Sandra fan, but she outplayed Russell - you know how I know? SHE WON!:lol

 

[Art Andrews]

That leads to jaded jury members who are looking for revenge.
The coat tail rider may be the weaker player, but doesn't have a cloud of negativity hanging over them. To me, that gets overlooked as it is clear emotions play a big factor into who gets the million dollars.

You know, I could accept that a little more easily if the jury would just be honest and say "Russell, you outplayed us and we are angry about it, so we are going to vote for someone else just so you DON'T win, instead of somehow trying to justify Sandra's actions to prove she should have won. In the past two seasons the vote hasn't been so much for the winner as it simply was AGAINST Russell. I wish the jury would at lesat be honest enough to admit that.

 

[Guri]

...instead of somehow trying to justify Sandra's actions to prove she should have won.

I know she wasn't very popular, but I thought she made a really good case for herself last night.

She watched her alliance get picked off and she stayed in the game on her own without riding coattails or playing well in challenges. Her bit about how she had warned the heroes about Russell and tried so hard to convince them he was a threat, but they wouldn't listen was pretty compelling to any hero who knew she was right now.

The other thing, Sandra is the only player who was able to directly 'threaten' Russell and gun for him to get voted out OPENLY, that he didn't try and successfully get voted off the island. He failed to vote her off as much as she failed to vote him off. He didn't evaluate the jury correctly when it came to himself OR Sandra, or he would have brought Parvati and Jerry and would have very honestly been able to say neither would be there if it wasn't for him.

She's got guts, she's true to herself and she was right - without alienating anyone but Russell fans.

I don't think it's 'trying' to justify her winning, I think there's a lot of legitimate reasoning for her to win, more so than the woman who won against Russell last season.

I do think there's a lot of reasoning for Paverti to win too, but I don't think Sandra just win so that Russell would lose. Him losing was just icing on the cake.

 

[Eopie Herder]

To give her credit, and what kept her in the game, was her manipulation of Russell planting the seed that Coach needed to go. That one move, I do think won her the game. And, had the reunion been longer and had more time to go over things like that, I think Russell would have commended her on it like he did with the hat. Like the hat, it is something he would have done, and last season did do.

I'll say it again, I don't like her, but it has nothing to do with liking Russell. He had no shot at winning. I just have disliked her since Pearl Islands. (Though to be fair, I can't even remember why.)

 

[tripoli]

Outwit
Outlast
Outplay

Russel did not outwit or outplay, again because the game has multiple dynamics dealing with strategic and social play. Told you guys that long ago in the thread, Russel is a fool because he does not play to win, just to get to the end. He is good at half of the game, he has no clue to the other and more important parts of intelligently outwitting and outplaying the others so that you can pull the social win at the end.

Anyone can do what Russel did, he deserves nothing other than the narcissist reputation he created for himself. I agree as well, Rupert was much more of a social and good game player than Russel.

 

[obiwan2]

I'm disappointed in the finale but not surprised. I really really really wanted Russell to win because I love the guy. I feel the jury gets their emotions involved way too much instead of stepping back and looking at how someone played the actual game via strategy....not how they skipped through the jungle together singing songs and laughing with one another. Grow some thicker skin, people!

For once, I want to see someone on the jury stand up and say "I don't like how you played. It didn't match how I think the sole survivor should get to where you are....but you have a chance to win a million dollars and I'm on the jury. You had the testicular fortitude to pull it out....and for that, I respect and feel should be rewarded....and that's why I'm giving you my vote"

I lost ALL respect for Rupert. The guy is a big baby who thinks he's an eagle scout. Get a haircut, ya hippie!

I loathe Sandra and really didn't see her do anything besides play a HORRIBLE strategic game and bounce around about what she wanted to do. She'd say she wanted to vote out Russell but then vote with him. She didn't earn it. I'm sorry.

All in all, an interesting season but once again a very frustrating one for me

 

[Forestmoonstudio]

I agree with TALLDARK... Bring back only two at the end.... BUT.... let the fans vote for the winner. It would be a good way to change things up for the next ten years.

 

[Sluis Van Shipyards]

I'm not surprised about the vote at all. The people in the jury in the last few seasons are just petty and vindictive. Someone needs to explain to them before they vote that it's a game. You don't see football players calling the other team evil because they did a quarterback sneak. How dare they? They tricked me! Rupert is a hypocrite because he called Russell evil and whatever else, but then admits he did the same thing at the reunion show.

Either way I agree that this needs to go back to a two person vote. The third wheel is just a safety valve that let's the jury pick the person that didn't offend their imagined ideal of playing a moral game. So you have two seasons where a person who didn't do anything won.

 

[dbuck]

Russell loses because he plays like a sociopath. He manipulates the heck out of people, scares people into doing his bidding (most of the time) and leaves a trail of destruction and hurt feelings, and then egotistically tells (not asks) the other players who got the boot to give him a million dollars because he is the best ever.
People don't respond too well to that, so yes, they give it to someone...anyone else. I probably would, too, regardless of my comprehension that it is just a game.
I don't think putting the vote in the hands of the public is the answer. Then you end up with an American idol kind of idiocy, with one million people casting fifty million votes.
I think a more introspective and honest final vote would be conducted at the reunion show, get the info you want and asks the questions on the island, and then go home, think about it, watch the shows with your family, and decide who you will vote for.
Only then would a Russell have a chance.