Willow D+ Series

[janglesworthy]

Everything about this show is CW levels bad. The youtube critics will love it since it will give them a lot to rip on though so it still has some value.

When will Disney make legit 1 hour shows and not these weird 35-40min shows that were predesigned anticipating commercial subscription?

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

A bit disappointing . Loved the original film and the trailer looked wonderful. I hope they get it together in the forthcoming episodes.

 

[CopperRevan]

My first thought when i got wind of the possibility of this series is why? To me it's like if they came out with another Ewoks Movie, like huh? And i like me some Ewoks. I can't wait to start hearing the chants of "but it's a slow burn, after the first 3 episodes it gets really better". Need i remind everyone that back in the day on regular programming, if a pilot came out and bombed, most likely it was cancelled and something else took its place. The realm of competition produces better results but in modern society, it all gets paid for in advance by us and you just gotta sit there at the table until your dinner is finished or you don't get dessert. If you don't like it then you go hungry. I'd rather go hungry on this one. Could care less about dessert. Atleast they never did any movie sequels with Willow...didn't need one. That should have been a big hint.

As much as i loved the Goonies and the thought of these kids going on another adventure, the movie just didn't warrant a sequel. I just simply don't understand why Willow warrants anything extra. Can we please get something fresh and new please?

 

[Captain Dunsel]

There are a lot of Sequel Trilogy story and character elements in the new series…

 

[ScourgiousJinx]

My first thought when i got wind of the possibility of this series is why? To me it's like if they came out with another Ewoks Movie, like huh? And i like me some Ewoks. I can't wait to start hearing the chants of "but it's a slow burn, after the first 3 episodes it gets really better". Need i remind everyone that back in the day on regular programming, if a pilot came out and bombed, most likely it was cancelled and something else took its place. The realm of competition produces better results but in modern society, it all gets paid for in advance by us and you just gotta sit there at the table until your dinner is finished or you don't get dessert. If you don't like it then you go hungry. I'd rather go hungry on this one. Could care less about dessert. Atleast they never did any movie sequels with Willow...didn't need one. That should have been a big hint.

As much as i loved the Goonies and the thought of these kids going on another adventure, the movie just didn't warrant a sequel. I just simply don't understand why Willow warrants anything extra. Can we please get something fresh and new please?

I agree on a personal level and have ranted many times about how its infinitely better to do something new than remake. It's truly tiring to be presented with so much unoriginality and so many apparent many cash grabs. But consider this it's not just about us and what we want to see. Remakes and reboots often cause younger generations to go back and watch the source material. I did exactly that after watching the first episode of the 2004 Battlestar Galactica series. So glad I did. But 2004 BSG was a great series. When remakes/reboots are poorly made one could argue they'll turn a potential new audience off to the source material. I just know that whether or not I enjoy something isn't necessarily a litmus for it being relatable/enjoyable to others especially younger generations as there's a slew of popular content that I'm clearly not the target demographic for.

If a remake brings past amazing films and shows to new audiences that for the most part wouldn't view them otherwise then at least it's doing some good by keeping the source material alive. That's not giving Hollywood a pass to make poor content as no one wants to their films/shows to be tarnished in such a way, it's finding a silver lining.

The best part is if a remake(or anything else) sucks I don't have to watch it. I'm giving this show one more episode to improve significantly, if it doesn't I'm out and onto things that I feel are worth my time.

 

[CopperRevan]

I agree on a personal level and have ranted many times about how its infinitely better to do something new than remake. It's truly tiring to be presented with so much unoriginality and so many apparent many cash grabs. But consider this it's not just about us and what we want to see. Remakes and reboots often cause younger generations to go back and watch the source material. I did exactly that after watching the first episode of the 2004 Battlestar Galactica series. So glad I did. But 2004 BSG was a great series. When remakes/reboots are poorly made one could argue they'll turn a potential new audience off to the source material. I just know that whether or not I enjoy something isn't necessarily a litmus for it being relatable/enjoyable to others especially younger generations as there's a slew of popular content that I'm clearly not the target demographic for.

If a remake brings past amazing films and shows to new audiences that for the most part wouldn't view them otherwise then at least it's doing some good by keeping the source material alive. That's not giving Hollywood a pass to make poor content as no one wants to their films/shows to be tarnished in such a way, it's finding a silver lining.

The best part is if a remake(or anything else) sucks I don't have to watch it. I'm giving this show one more episode to improve significantly, if it doesn't I'm out and onto things that I feel are worth my time.

man, well said, i agree with you but if we have to keep retconning to "keep the fire burning" for ages to come then that's pretty sad...if generations before the 70s and 80s just retconned the wizard of Oz and gone with the wind for the future then we'd be people most miserable. The fact that classics have still remained classics for decades says something about their originality and that is more my point but you're right...i don't have to watch.

 

[wayouteast]

Well, I seem to be something of a minority judging by other reactions, but I've just watched the first two episodes and thoroughly enjoyed them. I've always had a very soft spot for the original film which, even among the other great fantasy films of that era, holds a rather special place in my heart as a perhaps gentler and kinder take on the fantasy genre. So far, at least for me, the series hasn't departed from what I've always loved about the original. In fact, it's added a new layer to it by having an older, more world-weary, slightly time-battered Willow at its heart. I like the new, younger cast very much and look forward to seeing how the various relationships develop over the next episodes. It's still got the Willow feel for me.

 

[Treadwell]

I'm enjoying it. I like the production quality things like the sets and costumes. And as I said before, the younger castmembers are so beautiful it's actually distracting.

The only real beef I have is the contemporary style of the dialogue (among those same young ones anyway).

 

[Captain Dunsel]

I'm enjoying it. I like the production quality things like the sets and costumes. And as I said before, the younger castmembers are so beautiful it's actually distracting.

The only real beef I have is the contemporary style of the dialogue (among those same young ones anyway).

My favorite parts, so far, were the flashbacks to Willow’s days as a member of Blue Oyster Cult…

Well, I seem to be something of a minority judging by other reactions, but I've just watched the first two episodes and thoroughly enjoyed them. I've always had a very soft spot for the original film which, even among the other great fantasy films of that era, holds a rather special place in my heart as a perhaps gentler and kinder take on the fantasy genre. So far, at least for me, the series hasn't departed from what I've always loved about the original. In fact, it's added a new layer to it by having an older, more world-weary, slightly time-battered Willow at its heart. I like the new, younger cast very much and look forward to seeing how the various relationships develop over the next episodes. It's still got the Willow feel for me.

I will not be satisfied until the true protagonist of Willow appears…

No Burglekutt = No peace.

 

[Treadwell]

Speaking of whom, did ANY of the Nelwyn actors from the film return?

 

[Zuiun]

So this is one of those properties for which I totally get the "why do we need this?" arguments. When I first heard about the series, I was severely conflicted. I love the film, and the prospect of more adventures was appealing. However, there have been so many disappointing reboots that the chance for disaster can't be overlooked.

After watching the first two episodes, I have one hope for its redemption, which I'll get to...

First of all, I was initially a little taken aback by the modern tone/feeling conveyed by much of the cast (mostly the younger cast members), but then again, the original film kind of played a bit fast and loose with the level of "fantasy-speak" the characters engaged in. So in the end, I just decided to roll with it.

What did bother me, however, was the "I have a grave secret, and I could ease a lot of tension and confusion and maybe even get some help with dealing with it if I'd only let more people in on what's going on, but I'm going to screw everything up by not saying anything" trope that Sorsha was engaging in. The idea that "no one can know what I know" is just such a weird hill for these types of stories to die on.

Anyway, what I think can redeem this series and make it a worthy follow up: Willow himself.

It was absolutely heartbreaking when Sorsha admonished Willow for not being a great sorcerer and told him he never will be. It put a spotlight on an aspect from the film that appears to carry over to the series. Namely, that Nelwyns were not and are still not taken seriously (and Willow, specifically, is still not really taken seriously).

In the film, Willow aspired to become a great sorcerer. And Sorsha is actually right -- he failed and never really became that. Sure, he did eventually tap into magic, but he was never great at it. He even defeated Bavmorda not with magic, but (as Sorsha pointed out in the series), a cheap disappearing pig parlor trick. Yes, Willow became a hero, but it was because of his bravery and wits, not magic.

And so far in the series, it appears that Willow STILL hasn't really become the sorcerer he always wanted to be. So Willow becoming a powerful sorcerer remains an unresolved issue from the film.

There have always been a lot of parallels between Willow and Star Wars -- both were written by George Lucas, after all. The new series seems to be continuing with similarities to Star Wars. So given that, I fully expected a Yoda moment when Willow was teaching Elora to grow the seeds. That moment when he admonishes her for failing because she doesn't believe, and then he demonstrates that it can be done.

But he doesn't. He knows (or believes) that he can't.

So... if the show continues forward and only allows Elora to explore and develop her magical abilities, I will be deeply disappointed in it. However, if it allows Willow to eventually have the breakthrough he needs (maybe even with the help of Elora) to become, finally, a great sorcerer, then I feel like it will be a worthy follow-up to the film.

 

[Kylash]

So should t that baby be like 30+ years old by now if this is moving in real-time or is this not meant to be that long after the film?

here also seems to be quite a bit of setup to seeing Mad Martigan again, maybe even as the big bad.

 

[Treadwell]

seems to be about 18-20 years based on the apparent ages of the actors.

 

[harrisonp]

I like this show a lot. Especially in contrast to the navel gazing that we’ve seen in shows like Wheel of Time, and Rings of Power. I DNF’d those shows and I’m actually feeling compelled to watch this one.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Scratching my head regarding how there could possibly be such a wide gulf between the critics and the audience.

Did both groups watch the same show??

With “Top Critics” the gulf is even wider. I do have to say…95%?? That puts this show on par with the best television EVER produced.

 

[HMSwolfe]

View attachment 1645624
Scratching my head regarding how there could possibly be such a wide gulf between the critics and the audience.

Did both groups watch the same show??

With “Top Critics” the gulf is even wider. I do have to say…95%?? That puts this show on par with the best television EVER produced.

View attachment 1645689

As far as I know, the Tomato score is based off of the percentage of critics who rated the piece of media positively or negatively, in very broad, loose terms. It could be that very few people even bothered to watch Willow+. It’s a “cult classic” but not necessarily a household name. So (hopefully) what we’ve got here are the few uber-fans and paid critics giving it good enough scores, and then most critics just not even watching. Because honestly, the first two episodes were underwhelming at best. And frankly, I think the show is ruining one of the best parts of the original film, which I’m sure was completely unintentional at the time.

In the original film, Elora Danan is supposed to be this “child of prophecy”. But what is that prophecy? Is it that she will destroy Bavmorda? Or just that her birth signifies the end of Bavmorda’s reign? Because I feel like you could interpret the prophecy in Willow as one of the best uses of prophecy in modern storytelling, because the “chosen one” doesn’t do anything. She seems to just be a human MacGuffin meant to foretell Bavmorda’s downfall. That everyone else interprets her as hugely important beyond that is almost ironic. And it leaves Willow as the protagonist. A protagonist who, much like the Hobbits he’s based on, doesn’t win through might or power or influence, but through determination and quick-wittedness. Taking that away, by insisting, no, this Wonderbread Disney channel teen actually is super powerful and she just needs to “believe in herself” like all female protagonists are told to do, and that Willow got lucky with his “silly disappearing pig trick” seems…stupid. And that everyone is a slave to “destiny”. Blech. Boring. I’ll watch the third episode (I even forget that another had dropped today) and see if there’s really anything about it worth continuing. I kind of doubt it, though. It’s mostly the cringey Marvel-esque dialogue for me, though. I am so tired of everyone being so snarky and “funny” and interrupting heartfelt moments and being overly casual all of the time. Exhausting.

 

[janglesworthy]

I watched episode 3 after not liking the first 2 I thought...maybe it will get better? It get's worse, so much worse. There's some costume design that is so out of place, all you can do is laugh and wait for the memes.

Spoiler: oops

 

[Captain Dunsel]

As far as I know, the Tomato score is based off of the percentage of critics who rated the piece of media positively or negatively, in very broad, loose terms. It could be that very few people even bothered to watch Willow+. It’s a “cult classic” but not necessarily a household name. So (hopefully) what we’ve got here are the few uber-fans and paid critics giving it good enough scores, and then most critics just not even watching. Because honestly, the first two episodes were underwhelming at best. And frankly, I think the show is ruining one of the best parts of the original film, which I’m sure was completely unintentional at the time.

In the original film, Elora Danan is supposed to be this “child of prophecy”. But what is that prophecy? Is it that she will destroy Bavmorda? Or just that her birth signifies the end of Bavmorda’s reign? Because I feel like you could interpret the prophecy in Willow as one of the best uses of prophecy in modern storytelling, because the “chosen one” doesn’t do anything. She seems to just be a human MacGuffin meant to foretell Bavmorda’s downfall. That everyone else interprets her as hugely important beyond that is almost ironic. And it leaves Willow as the protagonist. A protagonist who, much like the Hobbits he’s based on, doesn’t win through might or power or influence, but through determination and quick-wittedness. Taking that away, by insisting, no, this Wonderbread Disney channel teen actually is super powerful and she just needs to “believe in herself” like all female protagonists are told to do, and that Willow got lucky with his “silly disappearing pig trick” seems…stupid. And that everyone is a slave to “destiny”. Blech. Boring. I’ll watch the third episode (I even forget that another had dropped today) and see if there’s really anything about it worth continuing. I kind of doubt it, though. It’s mostly the cringey Marvel-esque dialogue for me, though. I am so tired of everyone being so snarky and “funny” and interrupting heartfelt moments and being overly casual all of the time. Exhausting.

I always thought Elora’s prophecy was fulfilled in the first film when Willow and the gang defeated Bavmorda in order to protect her.

On a side note, the crossover I had thought impossible has finally happened…Willow has entered the universe of Deliverance…

I could hear Jame’s Horner’s music being plucked out on a banjo when I saw these very contemporary looking characters.

The costume designers really knocked it out of the ballpark with the medieval fantasy costume designs in this episode.

 

[Treadwell]

Agreed on the costumes.
Also:
Willow: we shouldn't split up.
also Willow: (makes no objection two scenes later when they split up)

 

[HMSwolfe]

I watched episode 3 after not liking the first 2 I thought...maybe it will get better? It get's worse, so much worse. There's some costume design that is so out of place, all you can do is laugh and wait for the memes.

Spoiler: oops

View attachment 1645770View attachment 1645769

Oh no…looks like I’m not watching episode three anymore…yikes.