AA case begins

Him saying he sculpted it or not has no bearing on the ruling, the ruling is they're industrial design and therefore not protected by copyright regardless of who sculpted them.
I'm in no doubt he originally concocted the story that he sculpted them in the hope that he could counter claim against LFL, unfortunately for him the ruling they're industrial design messes that option up.
Now i think he's just sticking to his story in order to not lose face, or just like every liar in history doesn't want to fess up even when caught in a lie.
 
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Yes, I foresee a major uproar from the movie industry. The ruling may in fact have severe repercussions reaching far into the fanmade prop hobby as well and will affect us all directly because a greedy guy set out to battle the giant... one who doesn't even care for the hobby or apparently the movie his works was shown in.
 
Unfortunately I think AA thinks he did sculpt them! Maybe the fact that he had to alter them has now manifested into I sculpted them? Wrong? Yes.
Maybe he's gone so far down that road he can't turn round?
Just me thinking aloud. We all know he didn't.


Exactly - there's no turning back. It was just a bit difficult watching him on tv coming out with the same stuff while eating my cereal this morning :confused



Brian
 
I'm afraid AA is a business man and not an enthusiast. Us and other forum guys and girls are a fraction of his Market. I'm afraid he has not the love as we do. It hurts I know but it's fact. In my opinion at least he puts out a half decent set of armor which is more than can be said of nearly all the licenced companies. It ain't perfect by a long shot but it's close.
 
Sskunky, I know it is wrong to lump you in with AA, but the more you try and dance around defending him, the more I, and possibly others, are inclined to lump you in with the company you keep. if I were in your shoes, I would just stay mum on this subject as you may be a bit too close to this liar.

He deserves the venom we all choose to spit his way.
 
I'm afraid AA is a business man and not an enthusiast. Us and other forum guys and girls are a fraction of his Market. I'm afraid he has not the love as we do. It hurts I know but it's fact. In my opinion at least he puts out a half decent set of armor which is more than can be said of nearly all the licenced companies. It ain't perfect by a long shot but it's close.

Business is no excuse for poor ethics.
 
I'm not defending him. I'm just stating fact. We all get personally involved with the ethics because we are all passionate about films and their props. I haven't once excused AA for what he says and claims. Have I?
I really don't care if you do lump me AA, I know I'm not with him in business or accountable for his claims just because I happen to know the guy. In my experience of knowing the man he has shown nothing but generosity and pleasentness. I judge people on personal experience not on their past or what other people think of them.

I have no beef with anyone here and you are all entitled to your own views and opinions. To say that I should keep mum and move along is I'm afraid just petty. I'm entitled as you or anyone else to my own opinion and view. Just because you don't agree is not my wrong doing or any reflection on my character. Don't forget alot of you are very quick to judge people on you own interpretation of what you read here. Some things are taken out of context, read the wring way etc.
If I'm not welcome I will leave you to it.
It's nice to know where I stand amongst the fans of replica props.
 
I'm not defending him. I'm just stating fact. We all get personally involved with the ethics because we are all passionate about films and their props. I haven't once excused AA for what he says and claims. Have I?
I really don't care if you do lump me AA, I know I'm not with him in business or accountable for his claims just because I happen to know the guy. In my experience of knowing the man he has shown nothing but generosity and pleasentness. I judge people on personal experience not on their past or what other people think of them.

I have no beef with anyone here and you are all entitled to your own views and opinions. To say that I should keep mum and move along is I'm afraid just petty. I'm entitled as you or anyone else to my own opinion and view. Just because you don't agree is not my wrong doing or any reflection on my character. Don't forget alot of you are very quick to judge people on you own interpretation of what you read here. Some things are taken out of context, read the wring way etc.
If I'm not welcome I will leave you to it.
It's nice to know where I stand amongst the fans of replica props.

You show great character in defending a friend, Sskunky. We all need friends like you. I've been lumped in with someone else for defending them as well. It doesn't make it right, but I have since learned to temper when I respond in defense of friends. That is all I am saying.

What Ainsworth has done is pretty much lie. No way to sugar coat things. He holds onto that lie as if his life depended on it. Those of us who cannot stand the guy are judging him on his now. He continues on the same road of lies. His helmets are not from any original film molds and he has never sculpted anything even remotely related to Stormtroopers. So, his entire platform is a lie. Forget business ethics, just plain old ethics would be nice.
 
Yes, I foresee a major uproar from the movie industry. The ruling may in fact have severe repercussions reaching far into the fanmade prop hobby as well and will affect us all directly because a greedy guy set out to battle the giant... one who doesn't even care for the hobby or apparently the movie his works was shown in.

....well maaaybe, but I think what will happen is that film producers will be looking through the precise wording of the law very closely, and doing what they can to tighten up these loopholes so that this sort of thing can't happen again.

I agree with Jez, I don't believe there's going to be a change in the wording of the law immediately so film productions are going to have to work with it as it stands.

Perhaps production companies should specifically register the objects they make for their films as Works of Art first and foremost, and as film properties secondly? That might mean they have an obligation to display them after the production to satisfy their definition as 'art' but they'd have the necessary legal cover. (?)
 
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I'm not sugar coating anything or defending him. I know it's wrong, his claims.
I'm curious to know how you know that he has no original molds? Have you seen them? Been to his workshop? If you are trying to compare 30 year old HDPE heavily painted delapitated helmets to new acrylic capped helmets then that is just hearsay. Not proof. HDPE stretches when vac formed and some of the helmets had up to 30 coats of paint on them brushed on with paint brushes because they couldn't get it to stick.
I feel just because you like to believe he has no original molds then he doesn't. He had two original helmets he sold at auction maybe he recasted those? I don't know. He told me that he cast the molds from protective casings which I presume were vac pulls placed over molds to protect them. They had to be remade as the old molds were shot. Maybe they were cleaned up? I don't know, neither do I care. It's his business not mine.
What I do care about is the fact that because I know someone I'm a bad person. I'm not. I love this hobby.
 
Going slightly off topic , but does this ruling on copyright mean that the replica items made by members here be copywrite protected against recasters as the piece is made to be viewed as an artistic piece ?
 
I'm not sugar coating anything or defending him. I know it's wrong, his claims.
I'm curious to know how you know that he has no original molds? Have you seen them? Been to his workshop? If you are trying to compare 30 year old HDPE heavily painted delapitated helmets to new acrylic capped helmets then that is just hearsay. Not proof. HDPE stretches when vac formed and some of the helmets had up to 30 coats of paint on them brushed on with paint brushes because they couldn't get it to stick.
I feel just because you like to believe he has no original molds then he doesn't. He had two original helmets he sold at auction maybe he recasted those? I don't know. He told me that he cast the molds from protective casings which I presume were vac pulls placed over molds to protect them. They had to be remade as the old molds were shot. Maybe they were cleaned up? I don't know, neither do I care. It's his business not mine.
What I do care about is the fact that because I know someone I'm a bad person. I'm not. I love this hobby.

It's not that you simply know him though is it ?
You associate yourself with him, you supply him with parts to reproduce and sell, you advertise his products for him on forums, you downplay any wrong on his part.
You openly say that his lies are wrong and you don't agree with his actions then surely you must see why people would wonder why you would continue to want to associate with and call such a person a friend that you openly admit lies.

Yeah sure you're free to pick and choose your friends and associates and that doesn't make you a bad guy but you can't be surprised people would question why you would want to be friends with someone who lies like he does.
 
Having opened up a huge can or worms I can completely understand why LFL want to continue to progress this - and will undoubtedly follow the Supreme Court with an appeal to the European Courts. I'm not sure if there's a Galactic Court but I wouldn't rule that out either!

IMO the most important process is for film/tv/medial companies to lobby for a change in the law to protect industrial copyright used in these industries for longer than the current 15 years. Although like I said before, given we're entering an election period I'd say it wouod be 2011 at the earliest.

Cheers

Jez

The Supreme Court is the next step, but as you said it is unlikely there will be a different decision there. They can only overrule the test, which is unlikely as it is entirely reasonable and both the original judge and the appellate panel gave cogent arguments why.

They can overturn the original judges interpretation of the test, which they will only do if it is wildly unreasonable. Appellate courts in the UK have the general principle that the trial judge, having heard the testimonies and with all the evidence before them, are in a better situation to decide matters of fact than a panel with only transcripts months after the trial.

They may have more luck with the jurisdictional matters but I doubt it. These matters are the remit of reciprocal international treaties, not the civil courts. This would require the US to recognise foreign judgments over its citizens; something I believe would be (quite rightly) resisted.

As far as the European Court is concerned they can only deal with matters of community law. There was a community law question as to jurisdiction, but as these laws only usually apply to member states it is unlikely thay will be successful.

If they were successful it may well create wider extra-jurisdictional recognition of judgments. This would lead to the practice of "forum shopping" for the jurisdiction with the least restrictive laws, and get the ruling enforced back home. This is in no-one's benefit. We already have a problem with this in the UK due to its relatively liberal defamation laws.

As to changing the law, I'm not sure there is any appetite to do so. These design rights are in line with patents (which last 20 years) and have the same purpose.

These laws are deemed to be in the benefit of society as a whole, and cater to its needs; not the needs of private individuals or corporations.

Even if it were changed it is unlikely to put the genie back in the bottle with respect to Star Wars. There is a general disdain for making laws which have a retrospective affect; which is what putting the now public domain property back into the hands of a private entity would have. There has been considerable criticism of the Sonny Bono law in the US which did just this.

Lucasfilm's best option if it fails to win its future appeals is to make products which are better than the unsanctioned ones, and restrict the marketing of unapproved items by enforcing their other IP rights.
 
Going slightly off topic , but does this ruling on copyright mean that the replica items made by members here be copywrite protected against recasters as the piece is made to be viewed as an artistic piece ?

I've been pondering this question, and haven't posted on it because I'm just not sure.

When you make a replica, assuming it is a piece made at least partly using your own skill and artistic ability (i.e. not just dumping an original in silicone and making identical casts) for artistic purposes, copyright attaches. Anybody who does make a copy of your item does so in breach of your copyright.

The thing that has historically stopped people from enforcing their right is that their work is in itself in breach of a pre-existing copyright, so any action is barred due to your rights being based on an unlawful act.

If your work is based on a work in the public domain this is no longer the case so from a theoretical point of view that restriction does not exist.

Whether this is the case in practice, I don't know. I'm not a lawyer, I'm a legal scholar. I've had legal training but have never practiced.
 
I'm not sugar coating anything or defending him. I know it's wrong, his claims.
I'm curious to know how you know that he has no original molds? Have you seen them? Been to his workshop? If you are trying to compare 30 year old HDPE heavily painted delapitated helmets to new acrylic capped helmets then that is just hearsay. Not proof. HDPE stretches when vac formed and some of the helmets had up to 30 coats of paint on them brushed on with paint brushes because they couldn't get it to stick.
I feel just because you like to believe he has no original molds then he doesn't. He had two original helmets he sold at auction maybe he recasted those? I don't know. He told me that he cast the molds from protective casings which I presume were vac pulls placed over molds to protect them. They had to be remade as the old molds were shot. Maybe they were cleaned up? I don't know, neither do I care. It's his business not mine.
What I do care about is the fact that because I know someone I'm a bad person. I'm not. I love this hobby.

So...if the old molds were shot, he is not pulling from original molds, is he? His whole claim was his helmets were from original molds. He recast the armor, why would it be such a stretch that he would not recast someone else's helmets. They are NOT his.
 
The Supreme Court is the next step, but as you said it is unlikely there will be a different decision there. They can only overrule the test, which is unlikely as it is entirely reasonable and both the original judge and the appellate panel gave cogent arguments why.

They can overturn the original judges interpretation of the test, which they will only do if it is wildly unreasonable. Appellate courts in the UK have the general principle that the trial judge, having heard the testimonies and with all the evidence before them, are in a better situation to decide matters of fact than a panel with only transcripts months after the trial.

They may have more luck with the jurisdictional matters but I doubt it. These matters are the remit of reciprocal international treaties, not the civil courts. This would require the US to recognise foreign judgments over its citizens; something I believe would be (quite rightly) resisted.

As far as the European Court is concerned they can only deal with matters of community law. There was a community law question as to jurisdiction, but as these laws only usually apply to member states it is unlikely thay will be successful.

If they were successful it may well create wider extra-jurisdictional recognition of judgments. This would lead to the practice of "forum shopping" for the jurisdiction with the least restrictive laws, and get the ruling enforced back home. This is in no-one's benefit. We already have a problem with this in the UK due to its relatively liberal defamation laws.

As to changing the law, I'm not sure there is any appetite to do so. These design rights are in line with patents (which last 20 years) and have the same purpose.

These laws are deemed to be in the benefit of society as a whole, and cater to its needs; not the needs of private individuals or corporations.

Even if it were changed it is unlikely to put the genie back in the bottle with respect to Star Wars. There is a general disdain for making laws which have a retrospective affect; which is what putting the now public domain property back into the hands of a private entity would have. There has been considerable criticism of the Sonny Bono law in the US which did just this.

Lucasfilm's best option if it fails to win its future appeals is to make products which are better than the unsanctioned ones, and restrict the marketing of unapproved items by enforcing their other IP rights.

It sounds like we're on the same page. When I mentioned a change in the law I didnt mean retrospectively, just for movies/tv in future. As far as SW is concerned - like you say the horse has bolted on that one.

Ultimately its a shame both sides couldnt have discussed this before going legal. I know people will say that LFL probably believed they were 100% in the right and were going to win - but they werent and this has ended up an almighty mess. A number of people here knew Ainsworth had a case so its a shame LFL didnt at least try to talk first.

Cheers

Jez
 
It isn't the same case people expected him to have though, Jez. The Ainsworth supporters thought he had claim because he was bragging about his work, how he was the original "assembler" of the helmets. Now, anyone in the UK can make these helmets, quite legally, if I am reading the ruling correctly. So, if someone comes along, recasts the pieces in question and offers them cheaper, they are well within their legal means to do so, yes?
 
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