Alleged Screen Used Hero TOS Phaser up for auction (now the aftermath)

[Highliners]

Greg's is the only hero with Velcro.

Until now Greg's was the only known SURVIVING "Hero". And friend how would you know whether or not someone didn't buy a batch of 50 Y/O "Velcro" off eBay and then glued it on his forehead? Or elsewhere?

Am I seeing things or are the P2 shells made out of off white resin instead of fiberglass on that one? It sort of looks like they grinded through the paint and exposed the resin? Does it say that it is fiberglass anywhere?

WHERE is it written the originals were all made of fiberglass? And you forget to mention what type of resin.

 

[Gregatron]

Greg's is the only hero with Velcro.

Ah, yes! That slipped my mind. It's been awhile since I studied the hero props while working on my personal build.

Thanks, expert!

 

[Highliners]

Ah, yes! That slipped my mind. It's been awhile since I studied the hero props while working on my personal build.

Thanks, expert!

WHERE AND WHEN?

 

[MARK M3]

Delete

 

[asalaw]

 

[Highliners]

As I have said: The apparent motive for those who continue to deny this is an actually filmed prop is envy.

 

[robn1]

Until now Greg's was the only known SURVIVING "Hero". And friend how would you know whether or not someone didn't buy a batch of 50 Y/O "Velcro" off eBay and then glued it on his forehead? Or elsewhere?

It is a known fact that there were 4 hero phasers. One had Velcro on the left side of the P1, the others are clearly seen on screen in close up without Velcro. What would be the point of adding Velcro after the show ended?

 

[Highliners]

View attachment 1465821

Hijacking of opinions of provenance regarding a Phaser pistol , how is that exactly please?

It is a known fact that there were 4 hero phasers. One had Velcro on the left side of the P1, the others are clearly seen on screen in close up without Velcro. What would be the point of adding Velcro after the show ended?

AGAIN, this issue Robn1 is WHEN? Velcro can be added or removed at will. WHY add it ...for a "restoration" in some people's minds.

 

[Captain Dunsel]

Anyway.

Interesting conversation and observations.

Authenticity really ultimately is going to be in the eye of the beholder and whomever chooses to purchase the piece.

 

[LOM]

I am by no means extensively familiar with phasers... but it kind of looks like an old Richard Coyle build that's been modified to me - I think his phasers have been mistaken for real ones in the past at other auctions?

His dial seems to be offset like mentioned on the first page. Couple pics from google of one of his I think:

(maybe not this particular one, I know he used to make a lot of these before)

 

[Highliners]

It is a known fact that there were 4 hero phasers. One had Velcro on the left side of the P1, the others are clearly seen on screen in close up without Velcro. What would be the point of adding Velcro after the show ended?

AGAIN, this issue Robn1 is WHEN? Velcro can be added or removed at will.

Anyway.

Interesting conversation and observations.

Authenticity really ultimately is going to be in the eye the beholder and whomever chooses to purchase the piece.

Objective truth exists objectively. What you have said is opinion. Look up: "Logic" as in Modus Ponens, Modus Polens.

 

[MARK M3]

Delete.

 

[Highliners]

I am by no means extensively familiar with phasers... but it kind of looks like an old Richard Coyle build that's been modified to me - I think his phasers have been mistaken for real ones in the past at other auctions?

His dial seems to be offset like mentioned on the first page. Couple pics from google of one of his I think:
View attachment 1465823

MOST SADLY I admit to having personally all too well known (past tense!!) Rick Coyle. And I have one of those Phaser's depicted. They are not anywhere near accurate. Just ask Scott Brodeen who worked for him at that time (40 years ago).

 

[Gregatron]

I find it interesting that this prop, Phaser 1 and 2, was authenticated by actual experts on the subject matter which allowed Heritage Auction house to in fact, put said item up for auction. Of course there have been frauds of different subjects in the past(I am guesing), But presented with the info in the advert and Highliners observations, I personally believe the Phaser is exactly what it is described to be.

And I did have the pleasure of actually examining a mid grade Phaser(both one and two)...Although this one is a hero.

See, this is a rational opinion presented in a rational and polite manner. What a novel idea.

Personally, I have no dog in this race. Just going with my gut and what I know, here. If more information comes out which proves this to be genuine, then that's totally awesome. Being flexible, open to new information, and willing to engage in actual discussion (and healthy, resepctful debate) is what we should be here for, after all.

Healthy skepticism is important with these things, though. As noted, there's enough photo documentation and knowledge about the Jein hero floating around out there for someone with ill intent to forge a very convincing fake. That's why we need to be vigilant.


I'm still not convinced. But that doesn't mean I couldn't be, given the right evidence and circumstances.


"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth", etc., etc.

 

[MARK M3]

Delete

 

[Highliners]

See, this is a rational opinion presented in a rational and polite manner. What a novel idea.

Personally, I have no dog in this race. Just going with my gut and what I know, here. If more information comes out which proves this to be genuine, then that's totally awesome. Being flexible, open to new information, and willing to engage in actual discussion (and healthy, resepctful debate) is what we should be here for, after all.

Healthy skepticism is important with these things, though. As noted, there's enough photo documentation and knowledge about the Jein hero floating around out there for someone with ill intent to forge a very convincing fake. That's why we need to be vigilant.


I'm still not convinced. But that doesn't mean I couldn't be, given the right evidence and circumstances.


"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth", etc., etc.

I thought you went away Greg?

"Rational Opinion" that disagrees with yours is Group Think shut off on here as these posts display.

AGAIN, the internal mechanism components of both Phasers are IDENTICAL. The etxeriors of these 55 year old cheap resin props bely their age. How good does a 1966 Aston Martin DB6 look with having been bondoed 7 or 8 times and fully repainted that same number which is the same situation here?.

 

[Jintosh]

If we are going to continue to discuss it's potential accuracy in a useful way, instead of attacking each other, then can someone please comment (intelligently) on the photo I've attached. Since one of these is the auction phaser and the other is a Jein hero, this area seems the most different to me, including a different trigger length. Are these differences within the margin of error in a vintage prop ? This is a serious question. (Please answer without trolling)

 

[Gregatron]

My observation is that right out of the gate, the Phaser was dismissed as a fraud by more than several members, without the burden of proof in their favor. I still see no mention of who actually declared the Phaser as the real deal, and personally THAT is where the crux of the authenticity lies...no?
I reserve judgement one way or the other, until all the facts are on the table...However, I don't believe Heritage would auction the item without exactly knowing what they have here.

And again, Highliners brings to mind perfectly logical points of view...

I can't wait for the debate when the 3' Enterprise miniature reappears...

I dismiss it as a fake (so far) because the details do not seem to match any of the props which have been documented, and certain details vary from the Jein in terms of the body shell shapes and overall construction (P1 rails glued into a slot cut into the body instead of glued onto the surface, etc.). The P1 power meter numbers appear to be a different font from the Jein, and are the exactly the same numbers (6-11/12) as the Jein, which would put the lie to the theory that Wah cut up one long list of typed numbers and stuck them on the different phasers.


Lots of little hinky details which do not match with screencaps of the known props OR the one authentic hero still known to exist.

If we are going to continue to discuss it's potential accuracy in a useful way, instead of attacking each other, then can someone please comment (intelligently) on the photo I've attached. Since one of these is the auction phaser and the other is a Jein hero, this area seems the most different to me, including a different trigger length. Are these differences within the margin of error in a vintage prop ? This is a serious question. (Please answer without trolling)

See, it's tricky to compare details of handmade items like these, because they can vary. These variances can't reliably be used as proof of authenticity OR forgery.


Which is why we need to focus on what we DO have for comparison, which is screencaps and photos.

 

[MARK M3]

I dismiss it as a fake (so far) because the details do not seem to match any of the props which have been documented, and certain details vary from the Jein in terms of the body shell shapes and overall construction (P1 rails glued into a slot cut into the body instead of glued onto the surface, etc.). The P1 power meter numbers appear to be a different font from the Jein, and are the exactly the same numbers (6-11/12) as the Jein, which would put the lie to the theory that Wah cut up one long list of typed numbers and stuck them on the different phasers.


Lots of little hinky details which do not match with screencaps of the known props OR the one authentic hero still known to exist.

Is it written somewhere that it HAS to match up? Exactly? Wasn't it mentioned the Phaser was being repaired? Perhaps while out for repair those little speed bumps happened...And I Too have no dog in the fight. I personally find it rather exciting of the prospect of another Hero Phaser turning up after all this time!
And again, the determing factor would be the qualifications of the individuals who determined it as authentic.

 

[Gregatron]

Is it written somewhere that it HAS to match up? Exactly? Wasn't it mentioned the Phaser was being repaired? Perhaps while out for repair those little speed bumps happened...And I To have no dog in the fight. I personally find it rather exciting of the prospect of another Hero Phaser turning up after all this time!
And again, the determing factor would be the qualifications of the individuals who determined it as authentic.

No, it doesn't have to match up. But, again, I put more stock in Occam's Razor vs. increasingly wild and crazy theories to explain inconsistencies.


Would it be awesome if this was real? Sure. But we need more info. And, until then, I stand by my opinion. Which some people seem to be foaming at the mouth over.


But, again, thank you for being civil and rational, Captain. I respect your opinion, and can see your side of this just as easily as my own. Like you, I have no dog in this race.