Constructive Suggestions regarding the revised RPF Guidelines

[exoray]

Well, you were warned that it would be forever.

And on the same note members of this forum have been warned all along that "infractions" were forever as well, so arguing solely on the merits of "you were previously warned" alone then both fail for any type of review or change...

And I'm not arguing for anyone's reinstatement, I argue more on the principle more along the lines of the punishment fits the crime...

As it stands simply asking to be banned for any reason is as severe and permanent as blatantly stealing $1000s upon $1000s of dollars from the members, I personally find this very lopsided...

Personally in all my years of being a moderator/administrator of forums I have never 'banned' anyone simply because they asked... I simply turned off their ability to accept PMs (so they didn't get PMs from unknowing members) and then bumped their password to a short and silly thing like "welcome_back" or "changed_your_mind" leaving their ability to return if they choose in their hands with a password request, banned on the surface but if they swallowed their pride they could walk back at anytime... I never told them they had the ability to return and I never told them they were banned I let them believe what they wanted...

All based on the philosophy of moderating vs policing...

As for banning I have always been against it, and believe it should only be used as a final last resort... I personally believe that rather then ban members their accounts should instead be severely limited... Meaning remove PM abilities, and posting abilities, except in a single specific forum where they are still allowed to try and make good with the members they screwed over if they choose, this still servers the purpose of them not interacting with the community but also offers the chance of some line of communication with staff and members that banning instantly removes...

I'm also a fan of keeping your friends close and your 'enemies' closer... Once you ban a member with no hope of coming back ever, you force their card to assume a completely new alias and identity if they feel the desire to return in any caliber... This defeats the whole ideal of removing them in the first place, as they now lurk in the shadows unrestrained...

 

[Darkknight0667]

And on the same note members of this forum have been warned all along that "infractions" were forever as well, so arguing solely on the merits of "you were previously warned" alone then both fail for any type of review or change...

And I'm not arguing for anyone's reinstatement, I argue more on the principle more along the lines of the punishment fits the crime...

As it stands simply asking to be banned for any reason is as severe and permanent as blatantly stealing $1000s upon $1000s of dollars from the members, I personally find this very lopsided...

Personally in all my years of being a moderator/administrator of forums I have never 'banned' anyone simply because they asked... I simply turned off their ability to accept PMs (so they didn't get PMs from unknowing members) and then bumped their password to a short and silly thing like "welcome_back" or "changed_your_mind" leaving their ability to return if they choose in their hands with a password request, banned on the surface but if they swallowed their pride they could walk back at anytime... I never told them they had the ability to return and I never told them they were banned I let them believe what they wanted...

All based on the philosophy of moderating vs policing...

As for banning I have always been against it, and believe it should only be used as a final last resort... I personally believe that rather then ban members their accounts should instead be severely limited... Meaning remove PM abilities, and posting abilities, except in a single specific forum where they are still allowed to try and make good with the members they screwed over if they choose, this still servers the purpose of them not interacting with the community but also offers the chance of some line of communication with staff and members that banning instantly removes...

I'm also a fan of keeping your friends close and your 'enemies' closer... Once you ban a member with no hope of coming back ever, you force their card to assume a completely new alias and identity if they feel the desire to return in any caliber... This defeats the whole ideal of removing them in the first place, as they now lurk in the shadows unrestrained...

What he said.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

So, who exactly are people on the crusade about being let back in? Seems mighty specific, without naming names though.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Exo, it still comes down to what the person wanted. Period. They felt that this place "sucked" or whatever. They never wanted to return. All the previous owners had done was grant their wish. You can analyze it all you like, but again, they've made their decisions. If someone later on down the road makes the same decision, WHY should anyone care?

Your argument about keeping in touch with the staff is flawed as well. Let's look at the user who ripped people off on some staffs. He had ample opportunity to make right with people, communicate with the staff to let them know they are still on the up and up but chose not to. This is just one example. In the time I have been here, it follows a template that Dr. S pointed out long ago. If you have my money for longer than a month with zero communication, you and I have a problem. It has nothing to do with the staff. I will take my problem with said person with the staff AFTER I have exhausted my options. It is then that I want people to know so and so is a thief.

You are still not explaining clearly the importance of removing the self imposed ban's permanence. You don't want to be here and you want the "Mommy State" to remove the option because you lack the will to come back. So, they grant your wish for you. How is that wrong?

 

[defstartrooper]

Why argue ? i doubt many if any of those that asked for their accounts to be deleted would want to come back anyway.
That's the whole point of asking to have your account deleted right ? they knew and were told this is for good you can't change your mind later think about it first, they chose to be banned, they could simply have hit the logout button and not come back until they wanted to, that's life you can't always turn back the clock and reverse a decision you make.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

Why argue ? i doubt many if any of those that asked for their accounts to be deleted would want to come back anyway.

This is true, but we do have enough sock puppet "attacks" every time open enrollment hits to throw your logic out of the window.

 

[defstartrooper]

This is true, but we do have enough sock puppet "attacks" every time open enrollment hits to throw your logic out of the window.

And how many of those are people that ASKED to be banned ?

I'll put my money on zero.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

And how many of those are people that ASKED to be banned ?

I'll put my money on zero.

Only one comes to mind.

 

[Art Andrews]

For now and for the foreseeable future banned is still banned, regardless of reason. Since everyone has gotten their view across and since this subject is 1) not one we care to debate and 2) not really relevant to the recent clarifications since we haven't changed the site's long standing policy regarding banned members, I'd be curious to know if anyone has any constructive suggestions regarding any other part of the MGL.

I do find it interesting to note how many people screamed and howled about non-expiring infractions and now that we have changed this policy... very little commentary on the matter...

 

[Malbona]

I have mixed feelings about banned members that asked to be banned coming back but I can see how time heals wounds.

I worked in a factory that I felt was total hell at the time. I couldn't wait to get laid off. When it happened and the plant closed, I danced with joy.

Several years later, I look back on the place with some fond memories. The place has actually opened back up under different management and I have considered applying to work there again.

This board has been like that. At one time, I felt the quality of this place went downhill considerably under certain old regimes of moderation. I didn't bluster and ask to be banned when I had enough. I simply changed my password to something randomly typed on the keyboard and logged out. It kept me away and kept me from being a drama queen like the others. It was a simple matter to request a new password via the help feature when I was ready to return.

I don't post much anywhere unless I feel I have something to contribute but I enjoy reading the threads and learning new things. As an old timer(10+ years) I miss seeing some old friends around here but maybe I'll connect with a few new ones.

As to the infraction points, I'm glad to see that they actually mean something now rather than being handled cryptically like in the past and expire in time.

 

[Too Much Garlic]

I do find it interesting to note how many people screamed and howled about non-expiring infractions and now that we have changed this policy... very little commentary on the matter...

Usually... you don't complain or comment on something that is okay with you. Don't expect to hear many comments about things changing for the tolerable or better.

 

[Art Andrews]

Usually... you don't complain or comment on something that is okay with you. Don't expect to hear many comments about things changing for the tolerable or better.

I understand what you are saying, but as verbose as some of those individuals have been, one would think there would be SOME comment made... not that I am complaining... but I do find it telling.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

I pretty much pointed to the one thing that caught my attention right off the rip. The rest seems very similar to the old CoC, so why comment on it? I try to not be a jagoff, so I usually don't worry.

 

[Laffo]

I understand what you are saying, but as verbose as some of those individuals have been, one would think there would be SOME comment made.

Give it time.
Laffo.

 

[defstartrooper]

I have one, if your going to have the big banners with the exclamation point sign at the top of a forum make it the JY with the damned rules of JY listing on it.
Personally i don't know why it's beyond peoples ability to read the sticky thread right at the top of the JY but they obviously don't, or if they do then they can't understand the half dozen blindingly simple rules or they choose to ignore them.

 

[Art Andrews]

Good suggestion and already working on a clarification of JY rules which sadly, as you accurately pointed out, are often ignored.

 

[GrenadeKing]

I didn't even know things had been revised and writen out. I guess I don't pay enough attention. :confused

I'm glad to see the change in the infraction system. I don't plan on ever getting any but, things happen. It's nice to see that I wont get banned 10 year from now because I built up too many points over those 10 years. :lol

 

[defstartrooper]

Another one regarding the JY, as it seems you're looking at revising the JY would it be possible to have a sub forum for runs seperate from all the other FS/WTB/FA threads ?

It's very easy for people to miss update posts at the moment especially if they don't check the JY for a few days, threads soon get bumped down a few pages.
A forum just for run threads would make them easier to keep track of as the majority of JY threads are people selling items they have in hand or listing items they WTB..