Fantastic Four Marvel Studios MCU

[Usagi Pilgrim]

At least the whiners are aware they are whining...

& for some reason, ok with it.

LOL

There's a new Star Wars show that just dropped a trailer & I didn't even post it because I don't want to be a contributor to the bellyaching.

 

[Ron]

Maybe you're right. Instead of giving women and non-whites (I hate the term "minority") their own original characters, we should keep giving them the sloppy seconds of white male characters. That's empowering I guess.

 

[Astyanax]

 

[joberg]

Maybe you're right. Instead of giving women and non-whites (I hate the term "minority") their own original characters, we should keep giving them the sloppy seconds of white male characters. That's empowering I guess.

Well, stats say they are the minority

 

[Ron]

Well, stats say they are the minority

Judging by modern commercials, I'm not so sure

 

[pengbuzz]

Not optimistic about another F4 film, tbh. There's been several now, and they have yet to really do them justice.

My suggestion: if I recall in the comics originally, Victor Von Doom wasn't involved in the space launch where the team got their powers. With that said, they should do a Dr. Doom origin movie and focus on him alone before trying any F4 movies. Doom is too large a character to try to cram his origin in with anyone else, and trying to tie his beginning in with theirs is a mistake in my opinion.

After that, do the F4 movie series and bring Doom in slowly, allowing for his power, presence and awe to culminate to full effect. Yes, Reed Richards can be part of his past (IIRC, he and Richards were fellow students at the same university; Reed tried to warn him about his experiment and he ignored the warning, causing the explosion that disfigured him) and that can tie the movies together. But all of it shouldn't be crammed into one or even two F4 movies.

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

Not optimistic about another F4 film, tbh. There's been several now, and they have yet to really do them justice.

The best FF movie has already been done. It was called The Incredibles.

After that, do the F4 movie series and bring Doom in slowly, allowing for his power, presence and awe to culminate to full effect. Yes, Reed Richards can be part of his past (IIRC, he and Richards were fellow students at the same university; Reed tried to warn him about his experiment and he ignored the warning, causing the explosion that disfigured him) and that can tie the movies together. But all of it shouldn't be crammed into one or even two F4 movies.

Hard 'yes' on establishing Doom first in his own mini-series. 8-10 episodes, at max, that sets the groundwork for the FF to not just exist but have them work in relation to Doom and his impact on the world. I'd change a few things about his and Reed's past just to make it more interesting. By setting the events of their youth in the height of the Cold War, maybe CIA or KGB agents sabotage Doom in some way, and Reed being young and naive at the time (maybe actually set him as being 'pro-West') either lets it happen or is manipulated in some way for the 'accident' to happen to Doom. That sets the interpersonal conflict with Doom and Reed as well as gives good reason for Doom to go back and topple the regime in Latveria, and seclude himself and his country from the rest of the world. It gives ample reason why there hasn't been any word about Latveria or Doom in the current line of products movies already made. Especially what a big deal Doom has been to all of the Marvel comics since his inception.

Since we're creeping on that subject, too; we gotta fix Namor. Doom and Namor together is arguably the most infamous pair of rabble-rousers in Marvel's canon.

 

[Lightning]

can't believe no one has posted this yet.

 

[pengbuzz]

The best FF movie has already been done. It was called The Incredibles.

They definitely should take notes from that then!

Hard 'yes' on establishing Doom first in his own mini-series. 8-10 episodes, at max, that sets the groundwork for the FF to not just exist but have them work in relation to Doom and his impact on the world. I'd change a few things about his and Reed's past just to make it more interesting. By setting the events of their youth in the height of the Cold War, maybe CIA or KGB agents sabotage Doom in some way, and Reed being young and naive at the time (maybe actually set him as being 'pro-West') either lets it happen or is manipulated in some way for the 'accident' to happen to Doom. That sets the interpersonal conflict with Doom and Reed as well as gives good reason for Doom to go back and topple the regime in Latveria, and seclude himself and his country from the rest of the world. It gives ample reason why there hasn't been any word about Latveria or Doom in the current line of products movies already made. Especially what a big deal Doom has been to all of the Marvel comics since his inception.

Agree in whole: it would make sense to tweak their relationship a bit and give some "tooth" to Doom's vendetta against Richards. It would also do much as you suggested to explain Doom's absence in the MCU (perhaps much of what has transpires was him working in the background all this time?).

Since we're creeping on that subject, too; we gotta fix Namor. Doom and Namor together is arguably the most infamous pair of rabble-rousers in Marvel's canon.

Yeah: Namor came across as kinda silly in my view in the last Black Panther movie.

 

[Ron]

They definitely should take notes from that then!


Agree in whole: it would make sense to tweak their relationship a bit and give some "tooth" to Doom's vendetta against Richards. It would also do much as you suggested to explain Doom's absence in the MCU (perhaps much of what has transpires was him working in the background all this time?).


Yeah: Namor came across as kinda silly in my view in the last Black Panther movie.

Yeah, whoever that character was, it wasn't Namor.

can't believe no one has posted this yet.

View attachment 1807527

Wouldn't Feb. 4 work better?

 

[cboath]

They definitely should take notes from that then!


Agree in whole: it would make sense to tweak their relationship a bit and give some "tooth" to Doom's vendetta against Richards. It would also do much as you suggested to explain Doom's absence in the MCU (perhaps much of what has transpires was him working in the background all this time?).


Yeah: Namor came across as kinda silly in my view in the last Black Panther movie.

If as everything suggests this is a 60's period piece - at least in the beginning, not sure he can be working behind the scenes for 60+ years unless Doom conquered the aging process. They've have to be at least in their 30's (pedro's in his 50's as it is now i think) to get to space, so they'd be in their 90's now without some 'timey-wimey' stuff.

 

[Laspector]

If they do Doom, there needs to be a good story for his armor. I don't mean just the mask. His suit isn't just a knight's outfit with a cloak (as I have seen many cosplayers do), it is really more like an Iron Man suit of sorts.

 

[pengbuzz]

If as everything suggests this is a 60's period piece - at least in the beginning, not sure he can be working behind the scenes for 60+ years unless Doom conquered the aging process. They've have to be at least in their 30's (pedro's in his 50's as it is now i think) to get to space, so they'd be in their 90's now without some 'timey-wimey' stuff.

Keep in mind that doom was a HUGE practitioner of magic; he made a major point of studying it for many years and becoming greatly proficient at it (per the comics). Also, Doom has traveled time before in the comics.

As for it being a '60's piece; that would be something to see, IMO. Maybe Don Draper does their advertising?

Overall; not sure how this is all going to work, but I think they need to develop Doom more before starting with F4.

 

[13doctorwho]

They announced Silver Surfer actress this week. Here's an article... Silver Surfer Cast

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

If as everything suggests this is a 60's period piece - at least in the beginning, not sure he can be working behind the scenes for 60+ years unless Doom conquered the aging process. They've have to be at least in their 30's (pedro's in his 50's as it is now i think) to get to space, so they'd be in their 90's now without some 'timey-wimey' stuff.

With how nonsensical things are in the movies, nevermind the comics, I think it'd be a non-issue (and really fun) if it's never addressed that once he dons the armor, he just never ages and it's never explained why. He just shows up at different time periods and remains exactly the same.

Keep in mind that doom was a HUGE practitioner of magic; he made a major point of studying it for many years and becoming greatly proficient at it (per the comics). Also, Doom has traveled time before in the comics.

Doom technically is more magic oriented. His armor was initially (and remains) enchanted and he's only ever added to that. Doom's whole thing was that he's so smart that he formulized magic into a new scientific principle, like Newton and calculus, except no one understands Doom's work besides him. It's been stated numerous times that he would be the Sorcerer Supreme if he wasn't such a jerk.

I think it would also be a huge dishonor to not just translate his armor literally from the comics and forgo the "seams and plates" look every single Marvel hero has in the movies. His armor was handmade by craftsmen-wizard-monks in the remote mountains of Latveria specifically for Doom. It should look traditional more than "space-y." Given Doom's nature, as well, he'd make additions to the suit over time, but it should be kept traditional as a point of Latverian pride.

 

[janglesworthy]

Flame on Johnny!

that is all I remember from TFF.

 

[joberg]

With how nonsensical things are in the movies, nevermind the comics, I think it'd be a non-issue (and really fun) if it's never addressed that once he dons the armor, he just never ages and it's never explained why. He just shows up at different time periods and remains exactly the same.



Doom technically is more magic oriented. His armor was initially (and remains) enchanted and he's only ever added to that. Doom's whole thing was that he's so smart that he formulized magic into a new scientific principle, like Newton and calculus, except no one understands Doom's work besides him. It's been stated numerous times that he would be the Sorcerer Supreme if he wasn't such a jerk.

I think it would also be a huge dishonor to not just translate his armor literally from the comics and forgo the "seams and plates" look every single Marvel hero has in the movies. His armor was handmade by craftsmen-wizard-monks in the remote mountains of Latveria specifically for Doom. It should look traditional more than "space-y." Given Doom's nature, as well, he'd make additions to the suit over time, but it should be kept traditional as a point of Latverian pride.

You're right about making a stand-alone movie about Doom Great stories and great character that has been neglected in many F4 movies.

 

[cboath]

With how nonsensical things are in the movies, nevermind the comics, I think it'd be a non-issue (and really fun) if it's never addressed that once he dons the armor, he just never ages and it's never explained why. He just shows up at different time periods and remains exactly the same.



Doom technically is more magic oriented. His armor was initially (and remains) enchanted and he's only ever added to that. Doom's whole thing was that he's so smart that he formulized magic into a new scientific principle, like Newton and calculus, except no one understands Doom's work besides him. It's been stated numerous times that he would be the Sorcerer Supreme if he wasn't such a jerk.

I think it would also be a huge dishonor to not just translate his armor literally from the comics and forgo the "seams and plates" look every single Marvel hero has in the movies. His armor was handmade by craftsmen-wizard-monks in the remote mountains of Latveria specifically for Doom. It should look traditional more than "space-y." Given Doom's nature, as well, he'd make additions to the suit over time, but it should be kept traditional as a point of Latverian pride.

That's all great. But what? 5% of the movie going public is going to know that going in. I'm not a comics guy so I didn't know any of that.

I will say my original response is based on the fact that the current speculation is it's a 60's setting (though that might be the first 10-30 minutes, who knows) and the fact someone said he's been working behind the scenes all this time. That would then imply he's been working behind the scenes since the 60's.

We have people here picking apart movies for the smallest of things that 99% of people will never notice, but let him have worked behind the scenes for 60 years, not age, and NOT explain it came as a suggestion in this thread. You can't really do that as everyone will notice that. You have to explain it somehow even if it's a throwaway line. If you don't explain it in this movie, you have to acknowledge it and set it up to be solved later 'he's 90, but he looks 40....how is that possible?'...something. The last FF stuff I saw was the movie the Silver Surfer was in when it came out. I saw a few months of the FF cartoon saturday mornings in the mid 90's before the government ruined saturday morning cartoons and I had no idea/recollection of doom being big into magic, etc. So, if they go that route, they've gotta explain to the masses or they'll notice and pick at it.

 

[PoopaPapaPalps]

cboath

We have people here picking apart movies for the smallest of things that 99% of people will never notice, but let him have worked behind the scenes for 60 years, not age, and NOT explain it came as a suggestion in this thread. You can't really do that as everyone will notice that. You have to explain it somehow even if it's a throwaway line. If you don't explain it in this movie, you have to acknowledge it and set it up to be solved later 'he's 90, but he looks 40....how is that possible?'...something.

Maybe it's just me, but I see nothing wrong with that. I readily acknowledge that most people coming in won't know or care about any of this esoterica but, at that same time, given what these MCU movies are, and moreover, what FF is, I think that allows for this kind of fun. The less said, the better.

FF has never really been as big as some of the other Marvel lines post-60's. They've never quite got out of that shadow of 60's B-movie, pulp, shlock that it was born from, and I'm hard pressed to recollect any strong stories from the line that I could recommend to anyone else. The only character that has grown out from under that and has really taken a life of its own is Dr. Doom. He's really become integrated into the common popular zeitgeist as an iconic figure (even being a key inspiration for Darth Vader), and needs to be respected in that regard. There's an enduring mystery, grandeur, allure to the character that extends beyond just mad-villainy. I honestly don't care how the main crew of the FF is depicted, they've always been kind of garbage tier. Doom needs to be set up strong first, as a singular entity, to really sell the FF; not the other way around.

 

[cboath]

I didn't say he shouldn't be set up as strong, or as a singular entity. I said you can't ignore agelessness and expect people to just say 'ok'. I get that it's on small number that pick up little nit picky things. Having a guy from the 60's not age in 60 years is something they'll pick up on is all i'm saying. So, one way or another you have to address it. I mean, you can address with a little wink-wink-nudge-nudge-know-what-i-mean, but you have to acknowledge it somehow.

I have no problem with a set up for Doom. Nor Galactus, or anyone else for that matter. I think a Disney+ show going into his details sounds like a good idea. It'll help set the stage from what i've heard.

I look forward to seeing how they handle it.