Han ANH hero - site and antenna

[spinner 44]

Very very interesting reading...

I have thought a bit about it and mixed it in my mind and I have come to the following ideas and questions. Some of them may have been discussed before, so sorry if I sound like an old record lol.

I think 2 ANH Han blaster non-GK were used: a hero firing blaster and a stunt blaster.

The hero is only used in the "stop that ship" sequence, and it can be seen shooting (flame flash) and the hammer can be seen ******. It is easy to assumed this was a working real Mauser. It was made of a working Mauser, the upper part of the Naked Runner Mauser, the M-81 flash suppressor and the metal scope mount. The only clear photos of this one that I have seen are the 2 side pics with the greenish background.

The stunt is seen in the "smugglers compartment" scene. You can clearly see the silver disc in the Mauser left side (I think it was painted to look like real metal), same goes for the silver touch in the Mauser magazine front, the head screw holding the flash suppressor and if you have a very sharp eye, the top of the bull barrel is not flat. Exactly the same characteristics as the blaster used in the photo session posted above. Tilted scope too.

Buttons over the barrel

silver disk

As Dan said with the very restrictive UK laws concerning guns, it is only logical that a working gun was used only in the scenes were it was needed to shoot. Being that the "stop that ship one". In every other scene the gun would have substituted by a dummy one, being safer and easier for shooting the film. As Tom M. said this one was made from a cast from the "Naked Runner" Mauser with some greeblies added before (buttons, t-track), and the added the real scope and mount system as well as the real M-81 flash suppressor to give it a more authentic look. This version would have been used in non firing scenes and post-prod photo shoots, some of these were retouched before being released. Before Photoshop, and since the 20's, the graphic arts people did it by making a big print of the photo, retouching using brushes, airbrush, cutting and pasting and the re-shooting the pic to have a "new" original.

Now a question for you guys... As the only 2 pics we have of the Hero Han blaster (those two side shots with greenish background) do not have either the front grill of the disc. What if the hero firing gun was that one, no grill, no disk, a different Mauser body. Why not? After all the only element in common between Han's Mauser and the Naked Runner one (in the pics mentioned) is the receiver with that particular bull barrel. I think is a very plausible theory. Maybe the Naked Runner Mauser body was not usable, maybe they used it just to make the casting, maybe there was a rush in the production....

I have been freeze framing the "stop that ship scene and I could not see any grill lines on front of the Mauser (thought that is no definitive proof as the film is a bit grainy) So do you have any clear photo that the firing blaster ever had the front grill?

This thread is going to get some steam me thinks.

Thank to Wackychimp for the hosting the pics..

 

[amish]

I hope that this picture adds some relevance to this. It is from a plublicity shot and I have lightened it to bring out a little more detail of the blaster. I am by know means an expert on greeblies and such, but I hope this will be of benefit to someone.

 

[gavidoc]

Originally posted by Prop Runner@Jan 4 2006, 06:24 PM


Now look at the Chronicles shot below - you can clearly see one switch to the left of a t-track fragment:

All I'll say is that it's amazing what you can see in that photo when it is a high res shot.

Trust me, it's what Moffeaton and others say it is.

That photo only shows one but you can see where there was another on the other side.

The greeblies on the MerrSonn (both the q-tips) and the t track are in the actual casting and are not addons.

 

[gavidoc]

I've got some photos of my ANH Hero buildup with the hammer ****** at home. I'll try and find them and post them this evening.

[image]http://propaholics.wolfchasers.com/maian_uploader/uploads/hammer.JPG[/image]

As for this shot of the mystery disk area.

I strongly believe that is a real lower receiver. Why? On my real mauser, when I put my mystery disk on my gun and then popped it off, it looked the exact same. I believe what you see there is exposed steel.

Also, we don't know that the those photos from the Pre-production of the gun aren't actually retouched either.

Originally posted by Prop Runner@Jan 4 2006, 06:55 PM

And before anyone says anything, the lower receiver of the Naked Runner Mauser is NOT the same one used in ANH, so don't go thinking that the scope bracket thumbwheels are what left the mystery disc residue, because there are no holes on the LHS of the ANH blaster:

- Gabe

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It's always looked to me like the left side of the Han gun was kind of fuzzy in the areas where the mounting points for the Naked Runner bracket would be.

MR even stated when researching this gun that there was a 2nd hole in the rear of the gun (near the hammer) that was not clearly visible in publicly available photos that pointed strongly to the use of the Naked Runner lower receiver for the actual hero gun.

 

[dcarty]

It would make perfect sense that the ANH Hero was also the complete "Naked Runner" Mauser (it would certainly explain the "silver disc"). One detail I will point out from proprunner's pics in Gav's response above is that the safety on the "Naked Runner" Mauser appears to be the hollow variation where the ANH Hero is the solid type. Although this doesn't mean that the part wasn't replaced at some point.

Cheers,

Dave C

 

[Prop Runner]

It looks like a consensus is building for there having been both firing and stunt versions of this blaster. The firing blaster may not have had a front grill or any bull barrel greeblies, and the lower receiver replaced due to holes on the LHS from the Naked Runner scope bracket mounting points. On the stunt we would have had a grill, greeblies, and a mystery disc, possibly from an imperial disc that's rumored to have been attached to the LHS (pending photographic confirmation, of course).

Let's confuse the issue with some more photos:

Here's a shot of Han during the "Stop that ship." scene with the grill and the mystery disc visible (does this mean the firing hero had these features, or the stunt was swapped for the firing blaster during the scene?):

But wait. Look at Ford's gloved thumb: seems to be lifting the elevation sight:

And if so, that would mean: real Mauser.

and here's another studio shot, where you can actually see the hammer ******, and no sign of greeblies - not even the rear edge of the t-track or rod (and if you look at me posing with my MARK IV above, you get almost an identical perspective and angle - without the greeblies):

This is yet one more studio shot, again, where NO greeblies can be found on the bull barrel, but the hammer is ******:

So is that a real Mauser or a stunt? Looks real to me... unless they cast one with a ****** hammer or the hammer/safety grouping was somehow attached to the stunt. :confused

- Gabe

 

[gavidoc]

I think that the one you see with the greeblies and the Pre-Pro shots are possibly the SAME gun.

The spot wehre the mystery disk goes is the bare steel with some of the bluing removed due to glue (same thing happened to my gun).

I'm not so sure that the lower receiver where the mystery disk goes is actually a "hole" in the receiver anymore. To me it looks like it could be where there is still blueing left on the receiver. Therefore, I am beginning to believe that MR was wrong when they said there was a 2nd hole in the lower receiver or that there were any holes at all.

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

Crap...

Thanks alot, Gabe. :angry Just when I thought I had this thing figured out, you come along and confuse me again. :$


In looking over this pic

I'm not quite sure what I'm seeing here. It might be that the sight is being raise, but since the underside of Han's glove is black, it might just be that you are seeing the black part of the thumb of the glove resting on the the gun.


Dan Stokes
DDStokes@aol.com

 

[Prop Runner]

Gav, I agree with your mystery disc opinion, but not about the greeblies.

On the mystery disk, the dark circle in the middle is definitely off center, and looks too small to be a tapped hole. Whatever had been glued there must have had a small depression in the middle, thus no glue on the steel.

- Gabe

 

[moffeaton]

See if these help in the whole stunt vs real mauser body issue:

 

[mgoob]

Originally posted by gavidoc@Jan 5 2006, 04:16 PM
publicly available photos that pointed strongly to the use of the Naked Runner lower receiver for the actual hero gun.

IF SO, then the framelock was swapped b/c the Naked Runner uses the lighter weight safety (hole in it) whilst the ANH safety is solid.

IMHO, it's a different lower.

 

[Prop Runner]

SHINY...

Looks like someone took a heat gun to those airplane radial engine cylinder halves...

So - should the imperial disc go on the Han blaster, or do we fondly remember it as "what should have been" and keep the featureless disc?

[EDIT]: Dan, there's a reflection off the black feature that pretty much says that's the elevation sight. The geometry looks right, too. Do you have a photo of Han's gloves showing where the black begins?

- Gabe

 

[Anakin Starkiller]

IF SO, then the framelock was swapped b/c the Naked Runner uses the lighter weight safety (hole in it) whilst the ANH safety is solid.

IMHO, it's a different lower.

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Check out the safety on the top picture of the Merr Sonn. It is hollow

Weird

Dan

 

[Prop Runner]

Here's a theory to chew on:

What if the Merr-Sonns were based on the lower receiver from the Naked Runner Mauser and used the imperial disc and that smaller disc in the rear to cover up the scope bracket mounting holes? Then, for the sake of consistency, the imperial disc was glued onto the Han firing blaster, but fell off during filming, possibly due to friction or snagging with the holster...

DISCUSS.

- Gabe

 

[Reel Fakes]

Am I the only one who sees some "clone-stamping" going on in those Merr-Sonn pics?
Where the Mauser info would be...

 

[moffeaton]

I see what you mean... could be.

 

[DL 44 Blaster]

Could the trigger be of some help? On the stunt resin one it's all together and on a real or Hero the trigger is defined and separate. Are their any shots to debunk whether or not it is a Hero or Stunt based on the trigger casting?

Steve

 

[lonepigeon]

Wow, I missed this whole big discussion.
I could've saved you guys some grief.

Originally posted by Prop Runner@Jan 5 2006, 09:05 PM
Here's a theory to chew on:

What if the Merr-Sonns were based on the lower receiver from the Naked Runner Mauser and used the imperial disc and that smaller disc in the rear to cover up the scope bracket mounting holes?  Then, for the sake of consistency, the imperial disc was glued onto the Han firing blaster, but fell off during filming, possibly due to friction or snagging with the holster...

DISCUSS.

- Gabe

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This is correct Gabe. I've said this several times before. There are many differences between the Merr Sonns and the Han Hero the big one being that the lower half of the Mauser used is different. The smaller disc on the back is not covering the Naked Runner scope mounting holes - it's actually the remains of the scope mounting bracket. There's another underneath the Imperial disc on the front. Apparently those two large scope bracket mounting posts did not come off. Bapty had to saw them off leaving those discs behind (or they were cut off on the castings, hard to say- note the rough file marks in different directions on the 2 Merr Sonns). They covered the front one with an Imperial disc and left the rear one. Ultimately this was probably why they replaced the lower half of the Mauser.

The antennas and T-track are added onto all the blasters so their exact position and length vary.
They were apparently damaged on the ANH Hero at some point so that they looked like the Chronicles pics by the end of filming.

Lots of weird conspiracy theories in this thread. The fact is you can follow the ONE single Han ANH Hero through all the photos. The simplest way to notice this is by the scope. The Hensoldt scope has the exact same wear marks in the pre-production pics before the greeblies were added as it does in the in-production/promo pics and the post-production Chronicles black and white pics.

I have never found a single pic showing an Imperial disc glued on the Han ANH Hero, but I agree with Gav that it was very likely there at some point and broke off before or very early in production leaving a circle of missing gun bluing.

 

[Prop Runner]

Chris, thanks for your insight into the Naked Runner Mauser. As usual, it's illuminating.

Originally posted by lonepigeon@Jan 5 2006, 03:32 PM
The antennas and T-track are added onto all the blasters so their exact position and length vary.
They were apparently damaged on the ANH Hero at some point so that they looked like the Chronicles pics by the end of filming.

However, I have to continue to stand firm in my empirical observations - most of the blaster photos show no top barrel greeblies whatsoever when the suppressor is centered - only when it's pushed down, and I submit that something was jammed in between the suppressor and barrel to compensate and recenter it.

I'd respectfully ask to see CONCLUSIVE evidence to support your conclusion that the firing hero Han blaster had anything on top, especially since we've now established that the ******-hammer "action pose" image Jason first posted was a bad touch-up job to recenter the scope. As far as what's visible in other photos, perhaps what was used to recenter the suppressor was deliberately made to look like the Merr-Sonn greeblies because they set a precedent for those features.

- Gabe

 

[lonepigeon]

Originally posted by Prop Runner@Jan 6 2006, 12:56 AM
I'd respectfully ask to see CONCLUSIVE evidence to support your conclusion that the firing hero Han blaster had anything on top, especially since we've now established that the ******-hammer "action pose" image Jason first posted was a bad touch-up job to recenter the scope.  As far as what's visible in other photos, perhaps what was used to recenter the suppressor was deliberately made to look like the Merr-Sonn greeblies because they set a precedent for those features.

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Well, if you don't believe the photos posted so far I don't see what will convince you.
I disagree that there was any touch up work done to those photos.
I looked at your observations of the photos, but just don't agree with your points.
It looks like you've labeled points of JPG artifacting and used the poor clipping path outlines of the Chronicles pics as "evidence". There's really bad rippling edges in the first large pic you posted which is evidence that someone rotated it in such a way that the image was resampled (which explains some of the image defects you've pointed out).
I'll give you the point that the small scallop looks odd, but that could also be a machining defect. I'd have to look at other pics.

The only photos I've seen offered as "evidence" of the details missing on the Hero are underside shots where the parts wouldn't be visible much if at all. Besides if you look at the whole pics I think you'd discover that most were all taken at the same time and you'd be trying to convince people that the parts disappeared midway during the photo shoot.