Harrison and Shia go on record: The last Indy movie DID suck!

[Jeyl]

NO! the correct term is Trans-dimensional beings :lol

...So, aliens basically?

I know it gets a bum rap, but I enjoy Temple of Doom immensely. Yes, I hated Willie (Lucas and Spielberg both have women issues), Short Round bothered me, but ToD was pure Indiana Jones adventure material! And dare I say, it's the most UNIQUE Indiana Jones movie of the franchise. Now, I'm not saying that unique means it's the best. Raiders is by far the best of the four, but they just took it's story formula and dulled it out. Let's compare Raiders, Crusade and Skull and see what their similarities are.

- They feature a foreign nation that was in quarrel with the US at the time seeking an ancient artifact that will no doubt better their success to TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
- The bad guys constantly try to kill Indy whenever there's an action scene taking place, but every time Indy is conveniently at their mercy, they just take him prisoner!
- When the bad guys finally claim this ancient artifact with Indy standing there helpless, it somehow overwhelms them and leads to their doom.

That's in every freaking movie except for Temple of Doom. I liked how in Temple of Doom, Indy comes across this occult by accident, and the part where he says "Children. He says they stole their children" really upped the anty. And when Indy was captured by the bad guys, the leader Mola Ram was able to convert him over to his cult which was freaking awesome. When Indy and company escape, Mola Ram's entire force sets out to KILL THEM! No lectures, no "I have you right where I want you!" speech, simple hunt and kill. That was a lot more fun and exciting than what we got after ToD.

And Shia Labugfudge as Indy's son? BULLSH%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indiana Jones had a daughter! Where's the daughter? Why do all these action hero movies always have to revolve around the over used trope of father/son relationships? I'm tired of this crap! Did they honestly have to retcon that unique element just so they could cash in on Shia's popularity? No one wants to take chances with female characters anymore and it SUCKS.

and George's obsession with the old times? Seriously, kids riding a car, And in the words of Spooney, you can see Lucas' finger prints all over this muck. You really think the opening is not him expressing his love of the 60s at the top of his voice? Just having those over-excited teenagers listening to old music tunes was a mood killer, and the mood hadn't even been set yet! Screw the thematic jungle trek opening, screw the subtle horseback riding opening from crusade. Let's watch what Lucas has on his mind all the time.

And if I can be frank, did anyone notice that Lucas carried over his "we're told to like them, not like them naturally" when Indy and Mac talk about their good old days? It's like they lifted the dialogue right out of Episodes II and III between Anakin and Obi-Wan. It was bad.

 

[sycor]

And let's not forget. All of this is just PR for Wall Street 2 which is coming out soon.

 

[Solo4114]

I find it hard to believe that without the other three movies as a lead-in, that this movie would have made any more than the Losers did over the last couple weeks or other crummy action movies make.

I also find it really hard to believe that it's just childhood Raiders nostalgia blinding most detractors of this movie. Sitting down today to watch each film for the first time, there are differences in the dialogue, the plots, the aesthetic, the performances, the pacing, the cuts, and the overall execution that are worlds apart. There are some weak miniatures and stop-motion animation from time to time in the first three Indy movies, but they didn't comprise entire sequences and the movie didn't exist solely for the sake of those set pieces. The CG in the new film is even more distracting and they go out of their way to feature it.

Well, I can't speak for Indy IV, since I haven't seen it and don't intend to. Ever.

But I can say that I can think of PLENTY of sequels from MULTIPLE franchises that people would look at as crap if they were either the first or only film in the series, or if you stripped out all of the intellectual property from the initial beloved entry (or entries) in the series. To me, the story should stand on its own and shouldn't rely on "brand name recognition" to carry it.


In fact, for all the "childhood nostalgia" arguments, I can just as easily use debate judo and say that the only reason people ENJOY these movies is BECAUSE of that same childhood nostalgia! Seriously, take KotCS and remove the man in the hat, set it during modern times, and stick in some random actor. Or make it part of an entirely different franchise like, say, National Treasure or Tomb Raider. Would anyone here be talking about how awesome it was?

Or strip out all the Star Wars lore from the films and make the Prequels a totally separate trilogy. Would people like them as anything more than just some cool action sequences? Would they perpetually rise to their defense on internet message boards whenever anyone besmirched their honor? I doubt it. Same goes if you make TPM the first entry in the series -- because if that were the case, it would've been the ONLY entry in the series.


Now, I will say that the degree of disappointment and dissatisfaction with these films probably IS magnified by the association with fond memories.
If Indy IV hadn't been an Indy film, I think that people would neither say that they loved it nor that they hated it. I think they would mostly "nothing" it, with smatterings of "it was decent" and "eh, I didn't like it much, but whatever."

But let's not forget that it's those very same fond memories that the producers are banking on and selling to the audience. "Did you love those old movies? Well you're gonna love this one! It'll be just as good!" They strike a bargain with the audience when they make sequels or prequels that the new entry in the franchise will both continue the quality and the storyline/characters/feel of the older entries. Is it any wonder when they fail to attain universal acclaim that people would respond with equally vehement attacks and defenses of the films?

 

[darthgordon]

I think most actors do this when they end up in a bad movie. They hype how good it is before and when it's released. After a few years they come back and admit that it was crap. You can't believe any of them when they say a movie is going to be "Awesome." Does it make sense for anyone in any business to tell you before you've bought their product that it's crap. I would have spent months on a project with a lot of people backing a lot of money and ended up with nothing to show for it.

Ask most of the actors from Trek (not nuTrek) about these things now. I remember how they all hyped Nemesis as being so terrific. Years later they will publicly tell you it was crap. Listen to what Beltran has to say about Voyager now that he's no longer employed with them.

Would you publicly spit in your employer's face while still employed with them. Would you make a public announcement about how much they suck?

Now this probably wasn’t the smartest move… ticking off the two most powerful men in Hollywood when there was a sequel in the works. I’m not sure what way it will go. I know Lucas isn’t the most forgiving man in the world.

As for Crystal Skull… I had trouble even paying attention to it while watching it. There were too many ridiculous moments right from the beginning. I don’t mind the alien concept as times have changed and so have the enemy. The Soviets didn’t care anything about religious artifacts, where Hitler was very interested in them. The Soviets were, however, interested in aliens and alien technologies. In the 50’s and 60’s those were all of our fears in one movie. The Soviets, nuclear war and an alien invasion… as reports of flying discs began in 1947. The newspapers, comic books and pop-culture of the time exploited the fears of UFO’s. Project Blue Book started in 1952. So that era was the golden age of The Cold War and UFO’s… it only makes sense that they’d be in the movie.

I just wish that I hadn’t finished the movie wondering what the heck I had just watched and what was it supposed to be about. An ending that made sense might have helped. Nuking the fridge was one of those several ridiculous moments that would pull me out of the moment.

 

[PHArchivist]

Say what you will but I liked Crystal Skull. I know most thought it sucked and well, even the stars agree with you! :lol

http://paralleluniverse.msn.com/fea...pologies-for-indiana-jones-4/story/?Gt1=28140

Pretty sure Steven and Harrison both told George it was a lame idea over and over before the film was even green-lit. But George was subborn and they finally gave in.

 

[Goonie]

I didn't hate the movie. I think my biggest gripe was the jungle chase sequence; from the moment Indy, Marion, and Mutt commandeer the truck, to the time the Duck lands in the river.
Sword fighting between two moving vehicles?
Monkey swinging?
John Williams' lazy score in this sequence?
CGI vehicles landing in the ants nest?
And the Jungle Cutter; could've been used for an awesome fight sequence.
That reminds me, if the jungle cutter was taken out by an RPG, then how could the other vehicles drive thru an uncut, dense jungle?:rolleyes

I actually didn't mind the end sequence at Akator, but, the crystal skeletons morphing into one living skeleton was a but wierd and could've used some more explantion. Probably would've been better if the skull was an alien device rather than an actual piece of the alien's skeleton.

 

[Egon Spengler]

Maybe since someone openly spoke out that was involved in the project, the next one won't suck as much if they make it.

 

[GeneralFROSTY]

I loved Crystal Skull and I hope the filmmakers have an opportunity to get ONE last adventure out of Ford, and hopefully that adventure will please more fans this time...

 

[Nwerke]

Ah, yes. Just as the zombie is the dreaded foe of the ninja, so, too, is the historic and epic enmity of the pirate and the spaceman.
:lol

LOL, and, was that a Pride and Prejudice and Zombies ref? :lol

This:

He says, "I'll probably get a call. But he needs to hear this. I love him. I love Steven. I have a relationship with Steven that supersedes our business work. And believe me, I talk to him often enough to know that I'm not out of line. And I would never disrespect the man. I think he's a genius, and he's given me my whole life. He's done so much great work that there's no need for him to feel vulnerable about one film. But when you drop the ball you drop the ball."

- actually raised my respect for SLB by a few notches. That was really quite well phrased! Time will tell whether he's right or not.

 

[Egon Spengler]

- actually raised my respect for SLB by a few notches. That was really quite well phrased! Time will tell whether he's right or not.

Same here man.

 

[EvilRocketeer]

Yup! I see Mutt's character being recast! MMMMM-hmmmm! Bite the hand that feed ya!!!!

Don Cheadle will replace him

 

[micdavis]

Amazing how many in this thread seem to respect the opinion of an actor they have no respect for as an actor.

Does that make sense?

 

[kalkamel]

Amazing how many in this thread seem to respect the opinion of an actor they have no respect for as an actor.

Does that make sense?

In the case of an unrespectable actor disrespecting himself? Hells yeah!

 

[Solo4114]

Amazing how many in this thread seem to respect the opinion of an actor they have no respect for as an actor.

Does that make sense?

I don't see why not.

He may not be a great actor (I honestly have no idea, since I haven't seen him in many films, and the ones I've seen him in...well, nobody's a great actor in them), but that doesn't mean he can't criticize both himself (which he did) and the project and have his opinion be legitimate.

If anything, I'd say that, while he may be a bad actor (again, don't know for sure), he certainly has more experience in Hollywood productions than most of us here, and certainly was closer to the specific project. If anyone's qualified to offer an opinion on the subject from the basis of experience, it'd certainly be him before it'd be any of us.

 

[vaderdarth]

You know it's entirely possible he just doesn't get Sci Fi.........LOL.

 

[IndyFanChuck]

Honestly, Harrison For got paid something like 30$ Million dollars and a percentage. If I was offered 30 Million Dollars and a percentage of that movie, I would have swung from trees with monkeys, and claimed that I starred in the greatest movie of all time.

Then I would take my 30 Million Dollars and buy 30 Million Apple Pies from MacDonalds.

 

[niennumb1]

If I was getting paid that much I would step in and give a critical thought on the script and offer some deep advice if my gut was telling me it sucked really bad.

These are those instances you can't blame actors for something being bad. Actors are told what to do and they're only trying to help tell the vision of the Director. Look at how great Samuel L. Jackson can be in a role and then look at how plain he can be in The Phantom Menace.

 

[Qui-Gonzalez]

If I was getting paid that much I would step in and give a critical thought on the script and offer some deep advice if my gut was telling me it sucked really bad.

These are those instances you can't blame actors for something being bad. Actors are told what to do and they're only trying to help tell the vision of the Director. Look at how great Samuel L. Jackson can be in a role and then look at how plain he can be in The Phantom Menace.

Umm...what? Samuel L. Jackson has played himself in every role he has been in. He shines when the roles are more "him" than when they are not. He doesn't have good acting range, and neither does Laboof. So...did you read the article? He shoulders a lot of the blame with his inability to act and make the part come alive.

 

[Gary Weaver II]

Honestly, Harrison For got paid something like 30$ Million dollars and a percentage. If I was offered 30 Million Dollars and a percentage of that movie, I would have swung from trees with monkeys, and claimed that I starred in the greatest movie of all time.

Then I would take my 30 Million Dollars and buy 30 Million Apple Pies from MacDonalds.

You would actually get 60 Million pies... They are 2 for $1

-Gary

 

[DarkHelmet]

Let me sidetrack this thread...(If I may)...

Though I never thought anyone else could play Indy but Ford, Clooney might be able to pull it off, and after watching THE MEN WHO STARE AT GOATS, I am convinced he could.

In part of the movie, he and Ewan are traveling in the Iraqi desert and Clooney is dressed in brown cargo pants and an Adventurers shirt very similar to Indy's. His tongue in cheek humor is very close to Fords.

I think they could go back to the 30's and 40's again.