He is against every move Disney makes. If there is a thread slamming Disney, he is either the one who created it, or is one of the main posters making comments. You can’t argue a point with him when it comes to Disney, lol.
Indiana Jones 5 officially announced
- Thread starter ghostryder
- Start date
Cephus
Master Member
The whole point of making movies is to make money. Spending an estimated $500 million to make a movie (production/marketing/reshoots) for a movie that will never make a profit is idiotic. Therefore, it is Disney's fault. They did something that was guaranteed to fail financially.
It’s frustrating in this day and age where no one can be convinced that just maybe they are not right all the time. Appreciate the heads up so I won’t engage.
One of the few things done RIGHT in recent years, is Marvel gave Steve Rogers/Captain America a "they lived happily ever after" end to his film story arc.
joberg
Legendary Member
I think it's "Woke-Political-Agenda" fatigue in general. Write movies like you would a comic book of the Marvel series or others without shoving the agenda down our spectator's throat. Good ol' adventures...that's what I miss!
robstyle
Master Member
I may be wrong but I recall DofD being in production prior to the unspecified virus of unknown origin. Then all that happened adding delays and skyrocketed costs all around. Combine that with Disney LFL's stellar predictable incompetence to commit to a script and director and it's obvious why the budget ballooned. Ill go out on a limb and say the virus of unknown origins added $100 million to that budget as a whole. Then Fords injury and the added reshoots/cgi/rewrites to compensate added, let's generously add $20 million to that.
I'll also add there is some sort of confusion going on with terminology of "reshoots" and "pick ups". Reshoots are generally as it sounds, footage reshot for various reasons or all new footage. Pick ups are footage added where needed such as an insert or filler to specific existing scenes. Pick ups are usually considered in the initial production schedule and budget where reshoots are not.
Fords injury and the cost involved would not be in the initial budget
The virus delays all around would also not be in the initial budget.
Not defending or justifying the project and costs involved, but reality check on it. The film wasn't set to be a $300 million dollar outing. I'll guess, all in, the budget was to be $225/$250 million, film and the popular as of late marketing included. As defensive as that sounds, poor management is the final verdict.
I'll also add there is some sort of confusion going on with terminology of "reshoots" and "pick ups". Reshoots are generally as it sounds, footage reshot for various reasons or all new footage. Pick ups are footage added where needed such as an insert or filler to specific existing scenes. Pick ups are usually considered in the initial production schedule and budget where reshoots are not.
Fords injury and the cost involved would not be in the initial budget
The virus delays all around would also not be in the initial budget.
Not defending or justifying the project and costs involved, but reality check on it. The film wasn't set to be a $300 million dollar outing. I'll guess, all in, the budget was to be $225/$250 million, film and the popular as of late marketing included. As defensive as that sounds, poor management is the final verdict.
Cephus
Master Member
They only did that so they could make Captain America black. If you go and look at how it was handled in the comics, Steve Rogers didn't wind up happy.
kalkamel
Master Member
Saw it two days ago. Admittedly, it wasn't a Crystal Skull-level abomination, and I didn't hate it as much as I hated that movie. With DoD all I felt was indifference. It was so bland and uninspired that it felt like one of those forgettable big budget adventure movies made for streaming (e.g. the recent one with The Rock and Ryan Reynolds, or both Highlander rip-offs - one starring Charlize Theron and the other one Mark Wahlberg) that you'd watch once and that's it. At least to Crystal Skull's credit, in it Indy was front and center. In DoD he was just along for the ride. Ultimately it is an unnecessary entry just as Crystal Skull was unnecessary. But as with most mediocre sequels or spin-offs that studios churn out nowadays, I just treat both these movies as taking place in an alternate dimension from the Original Indy Trilogy. You know why? Because in the original three, Indy wore his MkVII bag strap UNDER his jacket, whereas in Skull and DoD, he wore it OVER his jacket. 
Cephus
Master Member
We don't want movies like what has happened in modern Marvel comics. If anything, they're even worse than the MCU and they're spiraling around the drain, just like Disney is because of it.
Cephus
Master Member
Usually, reshoots are done when test screenings do not go as they'd hoped. The audience reacts poorly and they go back to the drawing board to fix the things that the test audience told them were wrong. We may never know just how extensive the reshoots were in DoD or how much they cost because Disney is unlikely to ever be honest about it. We just know that they happened.
Mangold, as good as he is, isn't Spielberg.
I don't think we have to try hard to imagine what Indy would act like as an old man. We had it already. It was Henry Sr. who was still enthusiastic about archeology and finding the next adventure. It seemed to me him and Indy were more alike than different.
I would imagine Indy at this point in his life is somewhat of a celebrity. His exploits have surely become the stuff of legend. His classroom would still be filled with a lot of very interested students but, instead of girls fawning over him, now it's aspiring historians and archeologists who have an almost fanboy-like obsession with him probably to the point where they show up wearing fedoras and leather jackets. Indy finds their fanaticism very silly but appreciates their enthusiasm, so much so, that he often takes them out to the university quad for bullwhip lessons. He's still together with Marion, Mutt is still alive, and everything is peaches. However, he still feels a longing in his heart to be out in the field (ala Kirk in TWOK). The movie is set at the end of the space race. You have great symbolism to work with there. The world is excited for what the future holds and most people are not looking to the past anymore. Indy, feeling as though he's lost his relevancy, is desperate to find that last adventure and it comes calling in the form of a grown-up Short Round. Why Short Round? Because he's a character we have a history with and care about as opposed to Helena. Is it a cheap member-berry tactic to bring him back? Absolutely, but so is bringing back an 80 year old Indiana Jones so might as well go full bore. Sallah shows up. Mutt tags along. One last hurrah.
There you go. You give him an internal dilemma while still maintaining a positive state of existence and reverence.
Edit: Happy 4th
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Here's a really dumb idea that could be tacked on:Mangold, as good as he is, isn't Spielberg.
I don't think we have to try hard to imagine what Indy would act like as an old man. We had it already. It was Henry Sr. who was still enthusiastic about archeology and finding the next adventure. It seemed to me him and Indy were more alike than different.
I would imagine Indy at this point in his life is somewhat of a celebrity. His exploits have surely become the stuff of legend. His classroom would still be filled with a lot of very interested students but, instead of girls fawning over him, now it's aspiring historians and archeologists who have an almost fanboy-like obsession with him probably to the point where they show up wearing fedoras and leather jackets. Indy finds their fanaticism very silly but appreciates their enthusiasm, so much so, that he often takes them out to the university quad for bullwhip lessons. He's still together with Marion, Mutt is still alive, and everything is peaches. However, he still feels a longing in his heart to be out in the field (ala Kirk in TWOK). The movie is set at the end of the space race. You have great symbolism to work with there. The world is excited for what the future holds and most people are not looking to the past anymore. Indy, feeling as though he's lost his relevancy, is desperate to find that last adventure and it comes calling in the form of a grown-up Short Round. Why Short Round? Because it's a character we have a history with and care about as opposed to Helena. Is it a cheap member-berry tactic to bring him back? Absolutely, but so is bringing back an 80 year old Indiana Jones so might as well go full bore. Sallah shows up. Mutt tags along. One last hurrah.
There you go. You give him an internal dilemma while still maintaining a positive state of existence and reverence.
Edit: Happy 4th
The artifact Indy has to chase after ends up bringing back every single enemy Indy ever fought, and they all have a grudge against him. Beloq, Major Toht, Col. Dietrich, Mola Ram, The Chief Guard who got crushed in the Rolelrs, Donovan, Col. Vogel, Spalko, the executives at Paramount and Disney, etc.
I like where you're going! So outgunned and overwhelmed, in a hail Mary last attempt to win the day, Indy uses the artifact to summon an alternate universe version of himself played by, wait for it...Tom Selleck!!! Together they defeat all the villains by using the powers of the Ark, Sankara stones, and Grail all at once. This stuff writes itself I tell ya.
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The rumor is that there was a Young Indy (Indy from WW2) and 1969 Indy. 1940's Indy dies to save 1969 Indy and Helena at which point 1969 Indy fades away. Helena grabs the hat and whip and becomes Indiana Jones and a montage ensues where Indy's classic moments from the original three films are replacements with her instead of Ford literally erasing Harrison Ford's Indiana Jones from existence. I can't say with any certainty that this was definitively shot, but that is the plot rumor which prompted the last minute reshoots after the test screenings left audiences infuriated at the idea.
The reshoots have been confirmed by John Williams own mouth as he had to score a new ending for the movie because the writers came up with a new ending a few months before the movie released. There's no contesting that part. As for the above rumor, there's no way to tell what really happened and Lucasfilm would never admit to that openly. So I guess Helena punching Harrison out cold to drag him back to 1969 was the best they could cobble together...
Joek3rr
Master Member
Because sadly that's often what happens. Look at King Arthur. He did not live happily ever after. But it doesn't always have to happen that way. Some heroes get their happily ever after. But when stories do continue past that, it's typically pretty tragic.
kalkamel
Master Member
JoshuaV
Well-Known Member
Saw the movie, actually liked it. I think it was because I was just looking for the nonsense from Crystal Skull and when it didnt appear, I was just happily relieved haha.
There is no Nuke the Fridge Moment
There is no King of the Monkeys Moment
There is no Three Waterfalls of Doom moment
There is no Breakdancing Mayans Moment
And there was no Aliens....
Wow didnt know my list was so extensive till I wrote it all out haha.
That said the movie has some good nuggets or concepts in it, I just wished they explored it more. But the biggest boo hoo thing I keep reading or hearing about from critics is Indy's Goddaughter Shaw. I blame the trailers, but the relationship between Indy and Shaw isnt as simple as Godparent and Goddaughter. Basically she's a embodiment of Indy's guilt for her father, and she kind of becomes the anti Indy, as she actually deals in the black market antiquities trade. So Indy and her have a very troubled relationship because he sees her as something he needs to save, and she see's him as the reason her father when mad. So their dynamic made sense when you understand what their relationship really is.
Which is isnt "Female Indy replace old Male Indy". That was never the dynamic. If anything she actually serves more as a female Beloq, she even dresses like Beloq at one point during the last act of the movie. And there is a cool call back to the watch which is a easter egg from Raiders.
That said there is a fantastical ending, but its more in line with the Ark melting Nazis or Voodoo from India removing living hearts, or Eternal life via the Holy Grail. Its not the ending I see written here with Old Indy meeting young Indy or anything, but it is fantastical. I personally liked it, it was handled well enough and there is a cameo at the end which again is a nice, relaxing, peaceful call back to Raiders.
Also the De-Aging scene was honestly really fun and entertaining. I told the people I saw the movie with I wish it was half the movie lol. They did a really good job, eat your heart out DC. Cant remove a friggin mustache lol. Also it was good seeing Indy punch Nazis. Any movie where you get a good Nazi Punching quota is aces with me. the more Nazis you punch, the better. If there is a sequel, it should just be a montage of Indy punching Nazis.
-Josh
There is no Nuke the Fridge Moment
There is no King of the Monkeys Moment
There is no Three Waterfalls of Doom moment
There is no Breakdancing Mayans Moment
And there was no Aliens....
Wow didnt know my list was so extensive till I wrote it all out haha.
That said the movie has some good nuggets or concepts in it, I just wished they explored it more. But the biggest boo hoo thing I keep reading or hearing about from critics is Indy's Goddaughter Shaw. I blame the trailers, but the relationship between Indy and Shaw isnt as simple as Godparent and Goddaughter. Basically she's a embodiment of Indy's guilt for her father, and she kind of becomes the anti Indy, as she actually deals in the black market antiquities trade. So Indy and her have a very troubled relationship because he sees her as something he needs to save, and she see's him as the reason her father when mad. So their dynamic made sense when you understand what their relationship really is.
Which is isnt "Female Indy replace old Male Indy". That was never the dynamic. If anything she actually serves more as a female Beloq, she even dresses like Beloq at one point during the last act of the movie. And there is a cool call back to the watch which is a easter egg from Raiders.
That said there is a fantastical ending, but its more in line with the Ark melting Nazis or Voodoo from India removing living hearts, or Eternal life via the Holy Grail. Its not the ending I see written here with Old Indy meeting young Indy or anything, but it is fantastical. I personally liked it, it was handled well enough and there is a cameo at the end which again is a nice, relaxing, peaceful call back to Raiders.
Also the De-Aging scene was honestly really fun and entertaining. I told the people I saw the movie with I wish it was half the movie lol. They did a really good job, eat your heart out DC. Cant remove a friggin mustache lol. Also it was good seeing Indy punch Nazis. Any movie where you get a good Nazi Punching quota is aces with me. the more Nazis you punch, the better. If there is a sequel, it should just be a montage of Indy punching Nazis.
-Josh
CT1138
Sr Member
Yes! I noticed the exact same, and was waiting for somebody to bring it up! A friend of mine asked me how Phoebe Walker-Bridge is in the movie, and I said she's like if Indy went on an adventure with a female Belloq.
Paul Andrew
Master Member
Marvel comics have nearly always had heavy moralistic undertones. X-Men was always about the evils of racism, Cap punched Hitler on the cover, female characters are often equivalent or more powerful than male ones in ensemble stories. It has literally always been there. The only thing that's changed is now there's a corporate media machine telling you it's ruined because of it's "wokeness."
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