New Doctor Who Series Discussion *Spoilers*

see the whole old age thing doesnt make sense to me. why not go to the younger clara, i mean you have a TIME MACHINE!

also, they obviously left the plot open for another headcrab dream with the tangerine, and im at a point where i cant stand clara anymore. im very doubtful if i keep watching while moffat and clara are still around.
 
There is another contingent - I don't mind Clara. It doesn't bother me that she's there and it wouldn't bother me if she left. Yes, I see there have been several opportunities for her to make a logical exit.

Everyone seems to think there was a rewrite to bring Clara back at the end of the Christmas Special. Has something been said about this or just an assumption? I think it might be the writing team having fun with the rumors and just making a bit of a fake out.

My biggest complaint about the Christmas Special is that I can't watch it with my niece. She's seven and has become a fan of Doctor Who. For a kids show, there's just too much there hinting that Santa Claus isn't real... and her being 7 and me being her uncle, that's a like I don't feel comfortable crossing.

I wish the fans and writers would both remember that this is kids program.
 
Well, two things.

First, it's not exactly a kids show. It started as such, and is often appreciated by kids, but since the relaunch, I don't see it as truly a kids show in the sense of "For kids ages 5 to 11." It's scary, and it's got plenty of sexytimes stuff in it, and emotional drama. I'd say that the emotional maturity of the show is targeted at teens, actually. Like, if I were going to say what the "sweet spot" is for Doctor Who's demographic, it'd be teenagers and pre-teens. Since the David Tennant seasons, I'd especially say teenage/pre-teen girls. But there's also a lot of adults who enjoy it -- and who are buying the merchandise. That's the other thing. Doctor Who has become a MASSIVE merchandising force, and one that targets a very broad demographic. Based on that, I'd say that while it was originally a kids show, it has morphed into something else, at least in the last decade since the relaunch.

Second, as for the whole "It was a rewrite" thing, earlier in the year, there was a whole bunch of news about how Jenna Coleman was leaving after this season, and that this would be Clara's last year. Then, I think after the series finale, it became more of a question as to whether she was or wasn't leaving, and they left it as a "mystery."

Some fans LOVE her. I tend to think this is the teen/pre-teen girl (or folks with those sensibilities) market, because Clara acts both as their "agent" as a kind of "wish fulfillment" for them. Which is fine. I mean, God knows there's plenty of "wish fulfillment/agent" material for the same age bracket for boys.

Other fans HATE her. I tend to think that this group is a mix of the guys who want the focus back on the Doctor, and some women who took issue with Clara's "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" nature in Matt Smith's last season. Which, in my opinion, is a fair criticism. Clara didn't have much personality last year, other than to be this intriguing "impossible girl" that was destined to save the Doctor and blah blah blah.

Personally, I really liked Clara's development this past season. They made her into more of a fleshed out character. They gave her a life, they gave her flaws (big ones, in my opinion), and they seemed to be using her to illustrate why, as much fun as it may seem to travel with the Doctor, there are real dangers. Not just to life and limb (although there are those, certainly), but to your happiness. Travel with the Doctor comes at a price. Other companions have paid it in a sense, and then still found meaning in their lives, but near as I can tell, only Clara has TRULY lost aspects of her life because she chose to travel with the Doctor (indeed, one could argue, because of her addiction to the Doctor). I found that really interesting, and not exactly something that had been explored. We'd seen things like "Oh, you might die" or "Oh you might feel sad after," but we hadn't seen as much about how traveling with the Doctor could actually ruin the rest of your life if you aren't careful. With the season finale, it seemed like they'd put a period on that statement. Right up until Santa showed up, that is. The Christmas Special, however, did a decent job of continuing that and giving Clara a happier ending if not necessarily a happy ending. Right up until the THIRD dream-within-a-dream thing happened and the Doctor woke her up AGAIN, and they jaunted off together again in the TARDIS.

I think it's the emotional whipsawing, coupled with the news about Jenna leaving -- wait, no! -- staying, that made me think the ending was tacked on. Also there's been news that they basically had to rewrite the scripts for Season 9. Whether that means that Clara AND Shona will travel with the Doctor, I don't know. That could be an interesting dynamic to explore, too -- the sibling rivalry thing -- but we'll see. They might just as easily ignore Shona until next year.
 
Second, as for the whole "It was a rewrite" thing, earlier in the year, there was a whole bunch of news about how Jenna Coleman was leaving after this season, and that this would be Clara's last year. Then, I think after the series finale, it became more of a question as to whether she was or wasn't leaving, and they left it as a "mystery."
Let me fix that for you: " there were a whole bunch of rumors about how Jenna Coleman was leaving after this season".

I do think the writing staff may have been having some fun with those rumors... hence, the fake endings and keeping fans on their feet.
 
I think they filmed both endings to cover their bases, it would have been harder to recreate that set months later if she changed her mind, dead easy to just film it both ways, for leaving or staying.

Hell they have been doing that for a while, even with the Ecclestone regeneration he could still have come back the next year if he had changed his mind about leaving, same as the fake out Tennent regeneration, but without a spare hand.
 
Well, from what I recall, it was portrayed in the press as pretty certain. Granted, that could've been unreliable press or it could've been that she changed her mind at the last second, but either way, I think it was a mistake to (A) film the season such that it really, really looked like she was done, and then (B) film the Christmas Episode in such a way as to undo that and apparently undo the emotional growth we saw from her last season.

I don't know what will happen next season, but I question whether she'll grieve at all, or if she'll just be back to the usual Clara. If it's just the same old Clara...well, that'd suck. She's been through too much, in my opinion, to recapture the kind of enthusiasm she had before. That's not to say she can no longer feel joy in life, but I just think it'd make more sense if she tried, but just...wasn't as happy traveling with the Doctor anymore as she used to be, and ultimately it's that "the thrill is gone" thing that leads her to leave the TARDIS and go do other things with her life.

And, of course, there's still the whole matter of that obligation to Danny to take care of the kid who came back in his stead.
 
Well, and see, that's the ultimate trump card, isn't it? Once introduced, you can "reboot" back to anywhere you want. Of course, you'll have to explain how 12 came to be, if you go back before Clara, but who knows. Maybe Danny's death is a dream. Maybe they'll still be in the dream all season. You can take it anywhere, which means Moffat can basically hand-waive ANYTHING away he wants, and have a plausible reason for it. "Ah, but you forget. Maybe they're still dreaming!"
 
IIRC, the story about Jenna Coleman leaving the series started from a site that's been fairly inaccurate. In fact, a quick google search reveals that there's been plenty of rumor, some speculation and little fact about her leaving the series. One of the sites that presents it as a fact was the Mirror - a British tabloid which was I was chastised about linking to a story of theirs in the past :)

Jenna Coleman was quoted in the Radio Times in September as saying: "...we’ve all decided we don’t want anyone to know which way it’s going." Which just makes me think even more that this was all just a set up and it got a bunch of fanboy panties in a twist.
 
Could be. You're probably right, actually, and that I just assumed it was accurate. I think playing with the whole "Will she/won't she" thing was silly, though, and a detriment to storytelling, but I guess we'll see what happens next season. I hope they can pull it out and tell good stories. I've less faith in Moffat than other showrunners, though. He's better than John Nathan-Turner, of course, but he needs to be reigned in. And, to be honest, I think Capaldi needs a season where HE'S carrying the show as the veteran, rather than one where we're still looking to the past.
 
I really enjoyed this season - I thought it had some silly moments (Robin Hood, the moon and superhero plants); but, I think the good moments more than made up for them.

I'm still not sold on Capaldi as the Doctor. I understand that need to get away from that last couple of Doctors; but, at times #12 just comes off as too coarse and too wooden. There are some great lines and scenes where this played for great effect - although, I worry that it can become a shtick.

I find Clara to be just fine. Yes, I saw the opportunities for her to make an exit just like everyone else and any of those would've been solid farewell. I liked that her and Danny's relationship played into the overall season arc with a great payoff at the end (killing Danny in the first minutes of the penultimate episode was genius).

I hope we get something a little more grander and epic next season.
 
For all of those people who keep complaining about the doctor not just hoping back in the Tardis and going to see Clara after he realized she was old. He can't. That would involve changing his own personal timeline which is very, very rarely done and is always said is a very bad thing. His personal timeline was that he didn't go back to see her again. She said it, he knows it.
 
I really enjoyed this season - I thought it had some silly moments (Robin Hood, the moon and superhero plants); but, I think the good moments more than made up for them.

I'm still not sold on Capaldi as the Doctor. I understand that need to get away from that last couple of Doctors; but, at times #12 just comes off as too coarse and too wooden. There are some great lines and scenes where this played for great effect - although, I worry that it can become a shtick.

I find Clara to be just fine. Yes, I saw the opportunities for her to make an exit just like everyone else and any of those would've been solid farewell. I liked that her and Danny's relationship played into the overall season arc with a great payoff at the end (killing Danny in the first minutes of the penultimate episode was genius).

I hope we get something a little more grander and epic next season.

I enjoyed it, too, missteps notwithstanding.

I agree that Capaldi's performance has been uneven at times. I think this is related to two things. First, different writers have yet to find his "voice" yet, and as a result, he's doing the best with what they're giving him. Some of this might be them writing for Peter, rather than writing for the 12th Doctor, ya know? Like, he's REALLY GOOD at playing cranky, so they write for that, even when it's not exactly appropriate. But the second thing is, in my opinion, really about Clara. As I've said, as long as she or someone in her mold stays around, the show will always have one foot in the past, and in a way that just...doesn't seem capable of fully realizing what Capaldi can bring to the role. As a result, you whipsaw back and forth between the period where the bubbly, attractive female companion was "kind of" in love with the Doctor, and this new era where the Doctor is more alien, colder, and a bit cruel, at times. And the two just don't blend exactly.

This isn't to say that Capaldi and Coleman don't have decent chemistry. They do, when they're written well. But when they aren't, I think it ends up hurting Capaldi more because we don't know his character as well as we know Clara.
 
...but, then we might have writers "struggling" to find a voice for both a new Doctor and a new companion.

Let's also not forget that Clara had only come around the prior season (and not really a companion in that entire season), whereas other companions had stayed around much longer (and there are some that have tagged along with multiple Doctors)... so I really think that's an unfair assessment.

I can understand the dislike for the character - I just don't think it's justified.
 
Personally I don't like this new Doctor. He's much too dark, cynical, negative and doesn't give a damn attitude. However several possibillties have been introduced that may bring something new to the show.

For example, what if after removing himself from time (and frmo the memories of the Daleks) the Doctor himself has reset his own regeration cycle allowing him to regenerate more then 12 times.

Or... Seeing as the Master is now a woman (Missy), what if his next regen the doctor comes back as a Woman Doctor... that could be interesting.

Personally I love the whole dynamic that the Doctor had of loving the mundane... How a simpleton can be thrust into greatness in a moment without ever doing anything. Honestly, I think Simon Pegg would make an excellent Doctor... he definitely is a fan and has the mannorisms down pat. But they really need to bring back K-9. I loved seeing him the the Adventures of Mary Jane, but he wasn't very promenent in that at all. Maybe only 3-4 episodes at most was he ever seen. I'd like to see him fix the camoflage circuit just once, to see just how many different shapes the Tardis can appear in. I loved when River fixed the whooping noise and told him that it was because he left the brakes on! Funny moment. But all in all, I kinda like what they've done with the whole series. I grew up with the Doctor and seeing him now in a updated sense is awesome! I agree, they need to do more off world stuff... bring back the wonder of it all. Show off the future, the past, different planets. What would you do if you could go anywhere in space and time?
 
...but, then we might have writers "struggling" to find a voice for both a new Doctor and a new companion.

Let's also not forget that Clara had only come around the prior season (and not really a companion in that entire season), whereas other companions had stayed around much longer (and there are some that have tagged along with multiple Doctors)... so I really think that's an unfair assessment.

I can understand the dislike for the character - I just don't think it's justified.

I agree, but I actually don't dislike Clara. What I dislike is how the show can't seem to decide which direction it wants to go, and is trying to have it both ways (sort of).

Basically, I think the show needs to decide if it's gonna go more "Grumpy Doctor" or "Happy Clara." They could do this one of two ways:

1. The Doctor lightens up and stops being such a grump. This might not be a bad thing, IF he can retain some sense of seriousness and maybe be more paternal than "boyfriend" or just "grumpy guy."

2. Clara shows that she has some real scars and is maybe a bit less "Yeah! Let's go on an adventure! It'll be fun!" and a bit more...hmm...weathered. Still likes adventure, but feels the seriousness of the situation, and responds seriously.

But I don't think it can continue with "happy Clara and the grumpy Doctor." Or at least, I think the schtick will get old. It'll actually be dangerously close to the 6th Doctor and Peri, albeit not nearly as pronounced. The 6th Doctor was always cross with Peri and bickered with her. Largely, this was because of how he was written in his very first episode (while he was suffering in his regeneration from...something...that made him kinda crazy), and the writers never "got" his voice. Colin Baker was told that he'd become a bit darker and more dangerous over the season, but it never happened. He was just a cantankerous, bickering blowhard in a typically-JNT-style outfit. I don't want to see that happen with this Doctor, so I think Moffat needs to figure out what direction he's gonna take the show, and then commit to it, rather than going half in, half out.
 
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