Prop Collector
Sr Member
They should teleport to the future and just stay there, setting the series after Voyager where it belongs.
Star Trek: Discovery (2017)
- Thread starter mkstewartesq
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Noeland
Master Member
Well, called that one. Michael IS the red angel. They certainly took the long way around to get to that one.
I love the new Enterprise. I enjoyed this episode a whole lot. I would watch a Pike/Enterprise series. They have to know they can make that work. CBS would be foolish not to do it. The set is already built.
I love the new Enterprise. I enjoyed this episode a whole lot. I would watch a Pike/Enterprise series. They have to know they can make that work. CBS would be foolish not to do it. The set is already built.
Bloop
Sr Member
Just watched part one of the finale and have to agree with a lot of the comments here. In addition to what's already been mentioned:
- Millennial/queen/STEM poster girl awkwardly shoehorned in because, y'know, Star Trek has to appeal to Millennials (are even young people in our time still saying things "rock?"), and to show that girls can be good at science. I do think we should do more to encourage young girls to study the sciences, but this hardly felt like a meaningful way of doing it.
- I find it rather unbelievable that so many crew members would choose to leave their own families to follow Burnham (a person most of them hated not too long ago) into the far future, with no conceivable way of returning. And why are they doing it? Just to support Burnham? Didn't they establish that only Burnham needed to go to take Discovery into the future, or am I confused?
- Why is the idea of sending Discovery into the future the best option, or even an option at all? So the Sphere data has taken over the ship, won't let them activate self destruct and raised the shields to prevent being destroyed, but it'll let a crew come back onboard and operate it like normal, and let them create a fake supernova to take it into the future?
- Also, the Sphere controlled Discovery made no attempt to fire back at Enterprise when they attempted to destroy it, so why not bombard Discovery with everthing they've got, until the shields go down? I've watched enough Trek to know that shields aren't impenetrable and can only withstand a certain amount of beating before going down. And how did they even get back onboard Discovery if the shields were up? Does any of this make sense?
- So they can create an artificial supernova but can't destroy a starship?
- Argh.
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Your mistake is in trying to use logic to figure things out. Even with Vulcons around there is no such thing as logical thinking on STD.
The last bit with enterprise was great. The preceding 55 minutes or so was not.
I still don't get why the Enterprise gets special uniforms.
Also, how did they know there were seven signals before they all showed up? And if they were all Michael what was her mom doing?
Normally I'm good with this stuff, but eesh.
And yeah, I want a Pike/Enterprise show.
And I thought Michele Yoeh was getting a Section 31 show, how they going to explain that...
Unless they are in the 24 Century so they can hook up with Picard?
Also, how did they know there were seven signals before they all showed up? And if they were all Michael what was her mom doing?
Normally I'm good with this stuff, but eesh.
And yeah, I want a Pike/Enterprise show.
And I thought Michele Yoeh was getting a Section 31 show, how they going to explain that...
Unless they are in the 24 Century so they can hook up with Picard?
kalkamel
Master Member
Well, in the pilot it was mentioned that the new color scheme uniforms were being rolled out. So because Discovery had been missing due to its trip to the Mirror Universe, everyone assumed that's why they didn't get the memo on the new threads. Yet, instead of upgrading, they stayed with the blues throughout the season, and Pike had to "downgrade" his uniform too when he stayed too. Not only that, when Admiral Cornwell later came on board, she was still wearing the blues despite being a Stafleet higher up. Even those Section 31 admirals still wore them. I guess the showrunners think we're a dumb audience and wouldn't notice.
About the seven signals, that too is a conundrum. We saw in the pilot the signals simultaneously appeared across the galaxy (totally ignoring the fact at which light travels), so their location would have been determined when they appeared. Yet, the locations only reveal themselves as the episodes progress, including the sixth and seventh which Burnham only decided before she went into the wormhole. My head hurts...
Also, from the previous episode, weren't the bridge crew the only ones who volunteered to stay on and go with Burnham to the future? Now it seems that the full crew compliment is staying, including the full Sickbay staff.
As for that finale, it was a cheap cop-out. The showrunners obviously thought keeping to canon was too damn hard so let's fling Discovery 950 years into the future and we'll take it from there. That should have been done on the show's inception (i.e. setting it forward instead of going back to pre-Kirk). But my biggest problem was the way Starfleet approached the problem. Swear everyone to secrecy and let's not talk about the Discovery or its crew ever again. Really? Oath of secrecy and erasing from existence are two different things. Families of the crew will still talk about them for years to come, those who knew Burnham from her childhood or from her academy years or even from the war with the Klingons would still bring her up in conversation. Not to mention those who worked on the construction of the Discovery or the spore drive. Are they all gonna keep quiet? Unless you have a giant neuralyzer and put all these people in a room...
Totally unsatisfying ending, except of course for the bit with the Enterprise. That was gold.
In an alternate timeline to our own, we'd probably get a faithful TOS reboot with Anson Mount as Kirk (you gotta admit, his Pike is very Shatner-esque), Jason Isaacs as Spock and Gary Sinise as McCoy.
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Prop Collector
Sr Member
A Pike Trek in an episodic style would satisfy literally every fan.
kalkamel
Master Member
I doubt if both the Discovery and Enterprise landing bays could hold that many shuttles, drones and pods, which made the battle scene a bit ridiculous. They must have blown their entire seasonal budget on those battle scenes alone.
No. Not every fan.
While I'm sure it would be an improvement over the current mess, many of us would prefer they abandon the continuity destroying swamp they've created and return to a Star Trek that's about moving FORWARD.
I don't want prequels, or reboots, or even a show where they are all children and their teacher explores the galaxy in a magic shuttle craft with them. Move forward, not back.
Well that’s what you’re about to get!
Discovery is finally about to live up to its name: 1,000 years in the future!
Again, these writers and directors don't know how to impart urgency to people speaking in a crisis. Characters speak at a leisurely pace and use the same amount of words as they would over coffee. Spock and Michael, go ahead and have your heart to heart, we're good, just battling an' stuff.
One "blast door" is enough to protect the rest of the ship from a photon torpedo?!
One "blast door" is enough to protect the rest of the ship from a photon torpedo?!
Bloop
Sr Member
OK, my biggest problem with the plot of the finale continues to build on my problems with the previous episode. They had several options and better opportunities to keep Control from getting the Sphere Data.
As I understand it, the whole point of taking Discovery into the future was to keep the Sphere data from falling into Control's hands. They supposedly couldn't destroy Discover because the Sphere Data took over the ship and wouldn't let it be destroyed by photon torpedoes (it raised the shields) or by the self destruct. But the Sphere Data apparently is ok with an entire crew coming back onboard and organizing an attempt to take the whole ship into the future.
Let's set that part aside for a moment (as ridiculous as that is). Let's say the Sphere Data infused Discovery didn't see the crew as a threat, nor their efforts to take Discovery into the future (again, ridiculous). Leland/Control and his Section 31 fleet arrive and attack Discovery, to the point where it's shields are down. This is the first missed opportunity. Once it's shields were down, Enterprise could have destroyed Discovery and eliminated the threat of Control acquiring the Sphere Data. Understandably. doing so would've killed the Discovery crew, which wouldn't sit well with the Enterprise crew, but I say "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..." The fact that no one on either crew even brings it up as a legitimate possibility of ending this threat, instead of a more far-fetched, difficult, and untested plan of opening a wormhole to go into the future, is baffling. They also could've had the crew abandon ship. Not enough time you say? Well, at the point the shield went down, they still had to wait quite a bit until their time travel plan could work. If they were also worried about Leland/Control getting on the ship while the shields were down (which he did, more on that later), I'm sure some of the noble Discovery crew would've volunteered to stay on Discovery and give their lives to keep Leland from accessing the Sphere Data.
Back to Leland/Control getting onboard Discovery.This is the second missed opportunity. Now that he's onboard, it is the perfect opportunity to destroy Discovery with the Sphere Data, and Control, both at the same time. It shouldn't have even been a question at that point. Destroy Discovery before the imminent threat of Leland/Control being able to access the Sphere Data. Losing crew lives would be acceptable to the alternative of Control getting the Data. But, of course, it was never even brought up as an option.
Moving ahead, now Leland/Control is onboard Discovery. They still continue with the plan to jump to the future with Leland onboard. Weren't they trying to keep him/it away from the Shield Data? Taking Control into the future onboard Discovery wouldn't eliminate the threat, it would only eliminate the immediate threat to this time period, foisting the problem off on some future societies (which is part of my problem with the whole "jump to the future" plan anyway). Yet they ignore it, except for letting Georgiou and "Yum Yum" what's-her-face fight Leland hand to hand.
Incredibly Georgiou wins the fight (!) and cages Leland/Control, then destroys him/it (well, we're lead to assume that - who knows what they'll do in season 3). They radio to Enterprise that Leland/Control is destroyed, and they continue with the jump to the future plan. Why? Isn't the whole reason to take Discovery into the future to keep Control from getting the Sphere data?
OK, trying to wrap up here. Let's assume that they deem the Sphere Data too dangerous to have around, in case Control or some other entity is able to get it (taking it to the future still doesn't stop that, but whatever). Now that Leland/Control is dead/destroyed, the shields are still down, so, again, why not get everyone off the ship and destroy Discovery??? This is the third missed opportunity. Nope, the plan to use untested technology to open a wormhole into the future, stranding hundreds(?) of crew members with supposedly no way to get back is still the best option. Side note - it was pretty easy to get a time crystal and create the tech to time travel, are we supposed to assume there's no way to do that again in the future?
Anyway, thanks to anyone that made it though my long post!
As I understand it, the whole point of taking Discovery into the future was to keep the Sphere data from falling into Control's hands. They supposedly couldn't destroy Discover because the Sphere Data took over the ship and wouldn't let it be destroyed by photon torpedoes (it raised the shields) or by the self destruct. But the Sphere Data apparently is ok with an entire crew coming back onboard and organizing an attempt to take the whole ship into the future.
Let's set that part aside for a moment (as ridiculous as that is). Let's say the Sphere Data infused Discovery didn't see the crew as a threat, nor their efforts to take Discovery into the future (again, ridiculous). Leland/Control and his Section 31 fleet arrive and attack Discovery, to the point where it's shields are down. This is the first missed opportunity. Once it's shields were down, Enterprise could have destroyed Discovery and eliminated the threat of Control acquiring the Sphere Data. Understandably. doing so would've killed the Discovery crew, which wouldn't sit well with the Enterprise crew, but I say "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few..." The fact that no one on either crew even brings it up as a legitimate possibility of ending this threat, instead of a more far-fetched, difficult, and untested plan of opening a wormhole to go into the future, is baffling. They also could've had the crew abandon ship. Not enough time you say? Well, at the point the shield went down, they still had to wait quite a bit until their time travel plan could work. If they were also worried about Leland/Control getting on the ship while the shields were down (which he did, more on that later), I'm sure some of the noble Discovery crew would've volunteered to stay on Discovery and give their lives to keep Leland from accessing the Sphere Data.
Back to Leland/Control getting onboard Discovery.This is the second missed opportunity. Now that he's onboard, it is the perfect opportunity to destroy Discovery with the Sphere Data, and Control, both at the same time. It shouldn't have even been a question at that point. Destroy Discovery before the imminent threat of Leland/Control being able to access the Sphere Data. Losing crew lives would be acceptable to the alternative of Control getting the Data. But, of course, it was never even brought up as an option.
Moving ahead, now Leland/Control is onboard Discovery. They still continue with the plan to jump to the future with Leland onboard. Weren't they trying to keep him/it away from the Shield Data? Taking Control into the future onboard Discovery wouldn't eliminate the threat, it would only eliminate the immediate threat to this time period, foisting the problem off on some future societies (which is part of my problem with the whole "jump to the future" plan anyway). Yet they ignore it, except for letting Georgiou and "Yum Yum" what's-her-face fight Leland hand to hand.
Incredibly Georgiou wins the fight (!) and cages Leland/Control, then destroys him/it (well, we're lead to assume that - who knows what they'll do in season 3). They radio to Enterprise that Leland/Control is destroyed, and they continue with the jump to the future plan. Why? Isn't the whole reason to take Discovery into the future to keep Control from getting the Sphere data?
OK, trying to wrap up here. Let's assume that they deem the Sphere Data too dangerous to have around, in case Control or some other entity is able to get it (taking it to the future still doesn't stop that, but whatever). Now that Leland/Control is dead/destroyed, the shields are still down, so, again, why not get everyone off the ship and destroy Discovery??? This is the third missed opportunity. Nope, the plan to use untested technology to open a wormhole into the future, stranding hundreds(?) of crew members with supposedly no way to get back is still the best option. Side note - it was pretty easy to get a time crystal and create the tech to time travel, are we supposed to assume there's no way to do that again in the future?
Anyway, thanks to anyone that made it though my long post!
So ...hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Starfleet personnel have to “Tilly Pinky Swear” that they will never speak of the Discovery and that’s the show-runner’s explanation for why the galaxy's greatest hero (Michael Burnham) and her magical mushroom powered Starship are not heard of in the in-universe continuity?
Please, I beg you, someone do a courtesy flush and send this show on its way.
Please, I beg you, someone do a courtesy flush and send this show on its way.
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BlobVanDam
Sr Member
The "let's never speak of Discovery, the spore drive, or the crew and let's never mention Michael again either" thing was a huge cop-out in a weak attempt to quickly tie-up loose ends for continuity problems they created in the first place.
I also wondered why they still needed to jump given they killed the dude. I also found it very contrived that the photon torpedo would be entirely blocked from harming anyone on board the Enterprise (admiral aside) just by closing a small blast door with a clear window, which had to be closed from the inside because reasons. And visually it still did a lot of damage to the Enterprise. I can't believe that the turbolift with Pike was not still collateral damage given it's proximity.
Also they only just managed to charge up this time crystal in time (can't believe I'm even writing that sentence for Star Trek) to make this jump into the future, but Burnham had enough power to make the 5/6 additional jumps required for causality. I have no doubt that a jump into the future big enough to take an entire starship uses a LOOOOOOOT more energy than the single person jumps into the past, but still. Did her mother have to recharge the time crystal for her hundreds of jumps? Can it just handle those smaller jumps indefinitely?
And I don't know if it was just the lighting, but I swear the Klingon leader had red blood, not purple. I'm pretty sure they got this right in earlier episodes though, so idk, maybe it just didn't show up well.
I also wondered why they still needed to jump given they killed the dude. I also found it very contrived that the photon torpedo would be entirely blocked from harming anyone on board the Enterprise (admiral aside) just by closing a small blast door with a clear window, which had to be closed from the inside because reasons. And visually it still did a lot of damage to the Enterprise. I can't believe that the turbolift with Pike was not still collateral damage given it's proximity.
Also they only just managed to charge up this time crystal in time (can't believe I'm even writing that sentence for Star Trek) to make this jump into the future, but Burnham had enough power to make the 5/6 additional jumps required for causality. I have no doubt that a jump into the future big enough to take an entire starship uses a LOOOOOOOT more energy than the single person jumps into the past, but still. Did her mother have to recharge the time crystal for her hundreds of jumps? Can it just handle those smaller jumps indefinitely?
And I don't know if it was just the lighting, but I swear the Klingon leader had red blood, not purple. I'm pretty sure they got this right in earlier episodes though, so idk, maybe it just didn't show up well.
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