The original sculptor of the Stormtrooper?

[Star Wars Helmets]

<div class='quotetop'>(jorusfett @ Nov 17 2006, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1360067[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(Helmetman @ Nov 17 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]1359944[/snapback]

Then why do we have shots of piles of them outside his window front ready for pickup?

[/b]

Isn't that where the trim was installed? That would explain the large pile of helmets there.

AA worked with auto parts and boat trim and had them available in his shop.
[/b][/quote]

So people are suggesting now that AA didnt even assemble them either?

:lol :lol :lol

Cheers

jez

 

[jorusfett]

<div class='quotetop'>(BingoBongo275 @ Nov 17 2006, 03:48 PM) [snapback]1360112[/snapback]</div>

So people are suggesting now that AA didnt even assemble them either?

:lol :lol :lol

Cheers

jez
[/b]

What's being suggested is that he didn't have that big of a role as he has played out through his various channels.

When you can't find a lawyer to defend you in general, you are more often than not in a lot of trouble and not telling the truth.

But I hear he did make great tea.

:lol :lol :lol

Tea up and cheers.

jorusfett

 

[voice in the crowd]

<div class='quotetop'>(jorusfett @ Nov 17 2006, 10:46 PM) [snapback]1360067[/snapback]</div>

Isn't that where the trim was installed? That would explain the large pile of helmets there.
AA worked with auto parts and boat trim and had them available in his shop.
[/b]

Trim fitter yeah that explains it :confused

In the real world of course I would have thought most other people would have carried the rubber trim over to Elstree studios instead of transporting almost 30 helmets to the 'trim fitter'. I am glad LFL carried 13 full sets of armour across London to place the helmets on so AA could fit the trim wouldn't want him getting an ergonomic strain bending down to fit the trim on the pavement (although some might ).

If it had been anything outside of a flashy Hollywood production I just wouldn't believe .

Cheers Chris.

 

[TK7903]

Ill be at MEM on the Sunday, although I am trooping with the UKG.

So I also doubt ill be able to chat with them.

I'd be intrested to hear whats said from people that do get a chance.

Ive met AA a few times, have some photos of his workshop etc, and like some people on here, find him a really nice bloke.

Although I would like to know the truth behind it all as I own the SDS armour.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

That's just it, he's lied so many times who knows what the truth is... :lol

Of course this should all be ironed out when LFL nails the coffin shut in the UK courts.



<div class='quotetop'>(TK7903 @ Nov 18 2006, 03:20 AM) [snapback]1360445[/snapback]</div>

Ill be at MEM on the Sunday, although I am trooping with the UKG.

So I also doubt ill be able to chat with them.

I'd be intrested to hear whats said from people that do get a chance.

Ive met AA a few times, have some photos of his workshop etc, and like some people on here, find him a really nice bloke.

Although I would like to know the truth behind it all as I own the SDS armour.
[/b]

 

[Lord Abaddon]

Interesting commentary from the UK including a link to the revision of the UK patent law...

http://ipkitten.blogspot.com/2006/11/storm...est-patent.html

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(voice in the crowd @ Nov 18 2006, 12:36 AM) [snapback]1360435[/snapback]</div>

Trim fitter yeah that explains it :confused

In the real world of course I would have thought most other people would have carried the rubber trim over to Elstree studios instead of transporting almost 30 helmets to the 'trim fitter'. I am glad LFL carried 13 full sets of armour across London to place the helmets on so AA could fit the trim wouldn't want him getting an ergonomic strain bending down to fit the trim on the pavement (although some might ).


Cheers Chris.
[/b]

You're absolutely right. Just heard the other day that the helmets were painted in his shop, and THAT is why they're there, the only reason. It would indeed be the wisest move to just carry the rim from one place to another. My mistake, I forgot to say that AA not only got to add trim to the already-completed helmets, but also paint them. And once again...that's about it.
JJ

 

[RKW]

******, next your be telling us the fairies dropped off all those helmets outside the shop.

 

[TK8410]

<div class='quotetop'>(Jumpin Jax @ Nov 18 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]1360841[/snapback]</div>

Just heard the other day [/b]

Ooooh, great. That clears everything up then. You just "heard" the other day. But of course, you have PROOF of this latest allegation right?? I'll print the definition of "proof" and "hearsay" for you if it will help. Please don't pursue a career in Law will you.

I wonder who you "just heard" this latest no doubt "accuraTE" snippet of information from...

If it is accurate, which I somehow doubt, just for a change, how's about some PROOF instead of the usual "I hate AA and will say anything that knocks him" b/s. I normally don't post in threads to do with AA anymore as I'm tired of the endless b/s that pours out of peoples mouths...but enough is enough. How's about you put out (as in some PROOF this time) or give it a rest. Change the record. It's more than obvious where your opinion lies, you've stated it over and over and over again. To say it's getting boring to read now would be a gross understatement.

:rolleyes

Cheers, Gord.

 

[SFPROPS]

All this discussion is moot. AA used LFL intellectual property that he DIDN'T "design". Even taking into account whatever contribution he may have made to the final look of the helmets (even at that, he was working from a prior design), that's enough to put him under. That's enough of a "whoops" to make all his other arguments worthless to save his butt, IMO.

 

[Jumpin Jax]

<div class='quotetop'>(TK8410 @ Nov 18 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]1360859[/snapback]</div>

If it is accurate, which I somehow doubt, just for a change, how's about some PROOF instead of the usual "I hate AA and will say anything that knocks him" b/s. I normally don't post in threads to do with AA anymore as I'm tired of the endless b/s that pours out of peoples mouths...

[/b]

Ironic
I'm not required to know details, nor is anyone required to supply them at all. There was never any proof AA was involved in making, well, anything. Be sure to supply proof before demanding it of others. I don't hate AA, he's just telling tales and making a buck off of it. I dislike that. I have to know people to hate them, it's just how I roll
You're tired of them? BS is what started the endless cycle of these threads in the first place. But instead of dealing with the cause, you take a shot at the latest poster. Apparently memory gives out when joyful ignorance is threatened. Sorry to shake your tree, but whether I know all details on demand or not, the truth is still there. And it doesn't favor public "knowledge." A man's word stopped meaning something a long time ago, when men started abusing that trust to make a buck. That's precisely what happened here, like it or not.

And considering how many times AA has "changed his mind" or "just recalled" info about armor AFTER being called on giant mistakes? I wouldn't judge on late-breaking info, were I you.

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'>(TK8410 @ Nov 18 2006, 06:52 PM) [snapback]1360859[/snapback]</div>

But of course, you have PROOF of this latest allegation right?? I'll print the definition of "proof" and "hearsay" for you if it will help. Please don't pursue a career in Law will you.[/b]

Ironic that you demand PROOF of stuff you don't believe to be true... Care to provide any PROOF of the contrary? Now remember you have removed "hearsay" as PROOF in you statement, so what AA or anyone else says is just hearsay when it comes from you and thus null and void as PROOF under your own definition...

I await your rock solid PROOF under you own stated defintion to to any of AA or even LFL claims...

Now, see isn't that just silly when it can be turned 180 and be just as stupid of a demand?

Truth is PROOF is subjective and there is no defintion that applies across the board, only subjective interpretation of evidence that leads to an assertion of the statements or claims as true...

So maybe he has all the evidence he needs to declare PROOF to him, if PROOF was black and white there would be no argument and certainly no need for courts...

<div class='quotetop'></div>

how's about some PROOF instead of the usual[/b]

Yep, a picture or two of that "original" mold would go a long way at PROOF of at least one of AA's claims, wouldn't it? See it's that silly turn it around 180 and it haunts your demand again...

As SFPROPS stated it's all really irrelavent at this point...

All in all even if he has rock solid rights (and they are not rock solid but slim) to the trooper helmet likeness, he has went well beyond any rights he might have with the other items he has and continues to offer and I have not seen ANY and I'll repeat ANY defense for the other items...

Just the same old boring "original" slupt and "original" molds claims with nothing to back them up, not even a SINGLE photo of in progress works... Sorry him standing next to complete or near complete items doesn't draw the conclusion that he sculpted and made them from the scatch all by himself, that is a long shot conclusion at best...

 

[Stormtrooper]

<div class='quotetop'>(Jumpin Jax @ Nov 19 2006, 12:25 AM) [snapback]1360841[/snapback]</div>

You're absolutely right. Just heard the other day that the helmets were painted in his shop, and THAT is why they're there, the only reason. It would indeed be the wisest move to just carry the rim from one place to another. My mistake, I forgot to say that AA not only got to add trim to the already-completed helmets, but also paint them. And once again...that's about it.
JJ
[/b]

Hahhahahahaha.....hold on a minute........ bwahahahaha. :lol Wait while I catch my breath....

You're actually serious?

Reagrdless of who sculpted/ owns the rights to the design, of the Stormtrooper helmet... you cannot seriously claim that SDS didn;t fabricate the helmets and costumes? Are you attempting sarcasm, and it just isn't coming over on your post? :confused

Fact #1 : Shepperton Design Studios owned vacuum-forming equipment, and was actively involved in using said equipment to manufacture canoes and accessories in the mid 1970's

Fact #2 : Stormtrooper helmets and costumes (as used in A New Hope) were made from vacuum formed plastic

Fact #3 : There are several photographs of at least 28 assembled Stormtrooper helmets, resting on sheets of untrimmed Stormtrooper armour components sitting on the pavement / sidewalk outside Shepperton Design Studio's workshop, taken circa 1976.

Granted, SDS may have painted said helmets and inserted the brow trim, but do you seriously expect us to believe that they had no involvment in the vacuum-forming of these helmets and armour components??.?.
Were they formed elsewhere and transported to SDS's studio, placed outside on the pavement / sidewalk for a photo opportunity and the fact that SDS was involved with vacuum-forming plastic was purely coincidental?

I have nothing to gain from arguing that AA sculpted the original Stormtrooper helmet, and I have no way of saying whether he did or not, but PLEASE don't create a completely absurd set of circumstances in order to back up the beliefs of one of your maTEs :rolleyes

Cheers,
John

 

[TK8410]

To exoray and JJ...

Erm, excuse me just one second. If you would like to go through posts made by me and tell me exactly where "I" am claiming anything, especially where it is to do with any proof in favour of, or against AA/SDS??

I'll help you out real quickly, save you the time. I'm not, haven't nor will, ever. IF I were to be so bold as to make ANY claim either way, I wouldn't hang my reputation out there without at least some proof. Something presented in an impartial manner, for all to see, so that they may make up their own minds on the subject at hand. Certainly something more than "I heard" :rolleyes So, before you attempt to be some kind of "all knowing" a-hole, feel free to contact me via PM and I'll set you straight. You both have made your feelings VERY clear on the AA subject, that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion...but heavens forbid someone/anyone doesn't agree with yours.

I haven't said ONE word claiming this that or the other, either in favour of or against AA, yet, rather than answering the question that was asked, provide some PROOF of your latest allegation b/s, you decide to try and turn it around and avoid the issue all together about "well, if AA can claim this blah blah blah" I'M NOT AA AND I DON'T SPEAK FOR HIM. I'm asking you. If you need it written in big bold letters with a crayon I'll pop it in the post to either of you, so you can take...your...time...and...understand...the...question. Answer the question, provide some proof for a change or have a huge steamy mug of STFU.

Feel free to play any spin-doctor games you like, I really couldn't care less. As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to make an allegation, provide some proof to back it up, or otherwise what you're claiming is just piss in the wind. Once again, what YOU are claiming. The absolute same goes for AA, BUT, I'm not talking to him on this forum...I have asked him via e-mail to back up his claims and at least he answers the questions. Whether I choose to believe him or not is up to me...but at least he answers the questions. I read what you wrote earlier JJ and I can't believe one single word of it. Based on what? Based on how you reply to any thread involving AA, based on any thread you reply to involving TE, based on any allegation I read/hear and I would prefer something more than "Just heard" as the ONLY offer of proof.

If your reply to this simple question/request is that you don't have to offer anything, then I'm more inclined to believe that it's because you have nothing to offer other than throwing more gas on the fire. Indeed, you may say the same of AA in reply, but at least he answers the asked questions. May not be what you want to hear or believe, but he answers, and it's not just what he "heard". If you want me to answer questions of proof for what AA claims, please tell me what colour the sky is on your planet. If he was a member here or on any other forum, sure, I would openly ask him. If you're telling me that in turn, I have no right to ask you to prove what you claim, then that says it all about you really.

If you feel inclined to reply and it's just more spin, please, don't bother.

Cheers, Gord.

 

[exoray]

<div class='quotetop'>(TK8410 @ Nov 18 2006, 10:32 PM) [snapback]1361007[/snapback]</div>

Certainly something more than "I heard" :rolleyes[/b]

<div class='quotetop'></div>

I have asked him via e-mail to back up his claims and at least he answers the questions. Whether I choose to believe him or not is up to me...[/b]

Interesting that you can talk to someone "in the know" and judge for yourself what is true and not, but if JJ has talked to someone "in the know" he needs to back it up on this forum or STFU? :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes

<div class='quotetop'></div>

Answer the question, provide some proof for a change or have a huge steamy mug of STFU.[/b]

I guess EVERYONE should just STFU, because honestly I don't believe anyone on this forum has absolute proof like you require...

But, if I was to guess JJ has been fed some additional information from a party directly involved, putting two and two together isn't really hard... Guessing at the reason he has been asked to refrain from spilling the beans to everyone on the RPF know is pretty obvious since there is an on going court case...

 

[lingarn]

Noble effort, Gord.

There may be some deaf ears for your plea to fall upon, but not everyone has them.

Lingarn

 

[TK8410]

So apparently you are now JJ's spokesperson...ok, whatever works. Still no direct answer to a direct question...figures. :unsure

<div class='quotetop'>(exoray @ Nov 18 2006, 11:03 PM) [snapback]1361019[/snapback]</div>

Interesting that you can talk to someone "in the know" and judge for yourself what is true and not, but if JJ has talked to someone "in the know" he needs to back it up on this forum or STFU? :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes[/b]

And you don't see a glaringly obvious difference there? REALLY? :confused

"I" e-mailed AA, (someone you say is "in the know") and he answered my questions. I didn't "judge" anything, I asked direct questions, got direct answers. Man, you like to make assumptions...figures. :unsure Anyways, did I then go on any forum and make my private conversation "public" stating that I perhaps knew something, or "heard" something...but I was in no way, shape, form or fashion gonna back it up...with at the very least, some little morsel for the crowds to feed on? Or who I "heard" it from? No. No I didn't. There's the difference for you. Obvious now?

Looking for "absolute proof"?? No, not really...just some form of proof, to back up an allegation...you know, something as opposed to nothing. Make it up...it will fit nicely with the allegation. Knock yourself out.

Oh, but apparently it's ok to turn round and spout that crap, safely hiding behind the "I can't say anything I 'heard' because there is a court case going on and I might get in the poo-poo" blanket. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Echo. How's about, if it can't be talked about for that very singular reason, you just refrain from saying anything.

Talk about AA/LFL sure, but talk about something that you know is going to get questions asked about it and suddenly it's OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I can't comment, there is a court case going on. I just stroke myself to sleep every night, safe in the knowledge that I know "something" that no-one else knows. Yet more b/s. Pure kindergarten mentality. What's next, your big brother is bigger than mine?

Whatever.

Cheers, Gord.

 

[Zenwalker]

<div class='quotetop'>(exoray @ Nov 18 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1360884[/snapback]</div>

Yep, a picture or two of that "original" mold would go a long way at PROOF of at least one of AA's claims, wouldn't it?


[/b]

Tell me honestly, if you were shown a picture of the original moulds would you believe they were the real deal? The reason I ask is because we have already been shown many period production photos that show AA fabricated the ST Helmets and Armour. The picture of ST Helmets sitting outside the SDS building (not good enough). The picture of A YOUNG (must have been photoshoped right) AA standing next to a pile of Tie Pilot Helmets, Chestboxes and wearing Armour (not good enough). Pictures of AA's fingerprint embedded in the plastic of a screen used Tie Pilot Helmet (not good enough). This helmet was purchased by a screen used dealer for around 40 k USD and asked AA to confirm the provenance of the helmet (not good enough). What do you want ? Like I've said before, some people still believe the Earth is flat.

I could see an argument ( a thin one at best) that AA did not sculpt the ST helmets/ armour, but to keep arguing that he did not at least manufacture them after there has already been a lot of evidence seems silly. With regard to who sculpted the ST Helmets/ Armour, it is my understanding that all of the artists/ companies that sculpted SW characters also had a hand in the manufacturing of them (Stuart Freeborn - Yoda/ Bermans & Nathans - Darth Vader), so why would the Stormtrooper characters be any different? I also think that if you were provided with photos of the real Stormtrooper moulds that there would be no way to definitely confirm that they were the real deal. The only way to tell if they were the real moulds would be to take an original ST helmet and physically see if its components nest onto the appropriate moulds. A photograph would not give enough information to tell you 100% that they were the real moulds anyway.

 

[DARKSIDE72]

The earth is flat... You've got 13 posts to your name 3/4 of which are directed a AA threads. Did you join this board to simply argue or are you just sockpuppeting?



<div class='quotetop'>(Zenwalker @ Nov 19 2006, 12:40 AM) [snapback]1361053[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>(exoray @ Nov 18 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1360884[/snapback]

Yep, a picture or two of that "original" mold would go a long way at PROOF of at least one of AA's claims, wouldn't it?


[/b]

Tell me honestly, if you were shown a picture of the original moulds would you believe they were the real deal? The reason I ask is because we have already been shown many period production photos that show AA fabricated the ST Helmets and Armour. The picture of ST Helmets sitting outside the SDS building (not good enough). The picture of A YOUNG (must have been photoshoped right) AA standing next to a pile of Tie Pilot Helmets, Chestboxes and wearing Armour (not good enough). Pictures of AA's fingerprint embedded in the plastic of a screen used Tie Pilot Helmet (not good enough). This helmet was purchased by a screen used dealer for around 40 k USD and asked AA to confirm the provenance of the helmet (not good enough). What do you want ? Like I've said before, some people still believe the Earth is flat.

I could see an argument ( a thin one at best) that AA did not sculpt the ST helmets/ armour, but to keep arguing that he did not at least manufacture them after there has already been a lot of evidence seems silly. With regard to who sculpted the ST Helmets/ Armour, it is my understanding that all of the artists/ companies that sculpted SW characters also had a hand in the manufacturing of them (Stuart Freeborn - Yoda/ Bermans & Nathans - Darth Vader), so why would the Stormtrooper characters be any different? I also think that if you were provided with photos of the real Stormtrooper moulds that there would be no way to definitely confirm that they were the real deal. The only way to tell if they were the real moulds would be to take an original ST helmet and physically see if its components nest onto the appropriate moulds. A photograph would not give enough information to tell you 100% that they were the real moulds anyway.
[/b][/quote]

 

[Star Wars Helmets]

Well after a promising start, this thread is really getting daft. So please Let me cut through some of the, frankly dumb statements above and provide some facts:

Fact 1: AA was intimately involved in the production of many of the helmets and costumes for Star Wars. No one disputes this, even Lucasfilm. Jumpin Jax’s comments that AA was only the painter and trim fitter is frankly idiotic. We can assume the much-banned TE is his “source” for information so we should give it the respect it deserves. Bin anyone?

Fact 2: There is a disagreement between AA and LFL as to whether AA SCULPTED the original helmet, NOT whether AA MANUFACTURED them, which is not in dispute. LFL maintains that they gave AA (via a 3rd party) clay or fiberglass casts for the Stormtrooper helmet, whereas AA maintains that the sculpt was his. The EXTENT of AA's involvement in the sculpt/design of the helmet is clearly important, since in the UK it greatly affects copyright.

Fact 3: LFL maintains that AA was (directly) given access to clay sculpture or fiberglass casts (or photos) of the Armour which he was engaged to manufacture. This is presumably the work carried out by Brian Muir and the key discussion going forward will probably be the amount of “artistic craftsmanship” that AA put into this (including for example any changes he made to the armour and its design) that would point to him owning some of the IPR in it.

This thread started out as an intelligent discussion over the real issues, such as whether AA sculpted or just manufactured the helmets and armour. IMO its a shame people like JJ have come in and written complete nonsense, either through a severe lack of knowledge or just to muddy the waters. Daft theories like these have tainted a valuable, intelligent thread.

Can we get back on track guys?

Cheers

Jez