Where Have All The Heroes Gone?

[Vivek]

Where Have All The Heroes Gone? | Badass Digest

At this point it's only wishful thinking to have the classic heroes as their depiction will likely continue to skew into grey areas with dark, conflicted and brooding archetypes.

 

[Solo4114]

"We're gonna give 'em back their heroes!"

 

[dascoyne]

http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsW/17916-11779.gif

"We're gonna give 'em back their heroes!"

I came to post that.

 

[Solo4114]

I came to post that.

:thumbsup

 

[rodneyfaile]

He's gotta be strong, and he's gotta be fast, and he's gotta be fresh from the fight.
He's gotta be sure, and it's gotta be soon, and he's gotta be larger than life.

 

[The Mad Professor]

There is room for relatable heroes. Marvel Comics made its bones by giving kids characters they could understand, avoiding the monolithic heroes of DC - which makes it all the odder that one of the few true heroes on screen lately has been a Marvel character. Captain America: The First Avenger presents a hero who has all of the moral strengths and discipline when he was scrawny Steve Rogers that he would have as brawny Captain America. Steve was a good guy from frame one, and the movie wasn’t about him finding himself or discovering his heroism or growing into the mantle - it was the story of a guy who had what it took and stood up and did the right thing.

That’s powerful.

Nailed it.

PERFECT description.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

That article rings so true in so many ways. Man of Steel, although good, wasn't the character to me. Lone Ranger is a bumbling idiot. JJ Kirk is entirely unlikeable most of the time.

All fun movies? Sure. But as he says, these characters were meant to be looked up to, not brought down to our level.

 

[Solo4114]

All that said, I can see a place for a hero who rises above his or her imperfections to do what is right because it needs doing. In that sense, I think Kirk by the end of the new film has filled that role. He still has his flaws, but he's much more capable of self-sacrifice.

I haven't seen the other two yet, so no idea about those.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

All that said, I can see a place for a hero who rises above his or her imperfections to do what is right because it needs doing.

True, and all of these characters certainly had imperfections (except perhaps Superman), however do we really have to make them bums on the street?

 

[Shadow345]

What superhero films actually depict their characters as hobos?

 

[Michael Bergeron]

What superhero films actually depict their characters as hobos?

Mostly referring to Kirk with that one.

Even then, I don't mean bum as in "hobo" but rather a person with very few redeeming qualities in their regular life. As the article says, these heroes used to be scientists.

 

[Solo4114]

I don't think we have to make them unlikeable. Kirk in the first film is unlikeable, and I think at the end he's....less unlikable. In the second film he's a lot more likable.

I can see the character growing into the hero mantle. In a sense, Cap does that. His heart is in the right place, but he's held back by circumstance. He's too scrawny, the brass won't let him fight, etc. For some heroes, e.g. Batman or Spiderman, I can see where a conflicted character might be interesting. If they made Supes conflicted in the new film...that's a mistake. He ALWAYS knows what the right thing to do is, once he's not a kid anymore. The drama from Superman is that he's just one guy, and he has a responsibility.

As a general matter, I'd prefer to see a first Superman movie being about him struggling with his limitations (you can't stop death, and you can't save everyone and be everywhere at once) in the face of his otherwise godlike powers. The SECOND film could be about "What gives YOU the right to decide?" and challenging not his power, but his judgment in how and when he uses that power.

With other characters, though, I think it's just kind of lame to have them be bumbling or jerky or whatever. The notion of a bumbling Lone Ranger does not make me want to see the film.

Even if the character is a lawyer.

 

[Art Andrews]

All that said, I can see a place for a hero who rises above his or her imperfections to do what is right because it needs doing. In that sense, I think Kirk by the end of the new film has filled that role. He still has his flaws, but he's much more capable of self-sacrifice.

Was just posting about this on facebook!

I feel like we have moved from true heroes to stories of overcomers... which at its core is an underdog story... and who doesn't love that. Why? Because at some level we all feel like underdogs and we all wish we could overcome something in our lives. By giving us underdog stories with flawed people we can relate to, we can live vicariously through their wins while comfortably sitting and doing nothing about our own situation. To me this is a stark contrast to a true hero who isn't necessarily an overcomer, but is clearly on a moral/physical/mental platform above us and who inspires us to strive to their greatness.

While a lot of people are crapping on MoS, there were some truly inspirational moments, especially the way the trailers were cut together and especially some of Jor-Els words. If his speech about "They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders" doesn't inspire you and get you at least a tiny bit emotional... I don't know what would.

 

[Jeyl]

"They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders" doesn't inspire you and get you at least a tiny bit emotional... I don't know what would.

If you have a movie with a better story that fit the context of his speech, I'd agree. But in the end, it all amounted to "I have the power to destroy this world and you can't do jack about it. Deal with it." I think it would have been better if Jor'el had said "In time, they will see you for what you really are... smoking hot!" And that would actually have more payoff than what we got.

I also :love Captain America more than this Supes.

 

[Michael Bergeron]

If they made Supes conflicted in the new film...that's a mistake.

Yes they did, and yes it was.

As a general matter, I'd prefer to see a first Superman movie being about him struggling with his limitations (you can't stop death, and you can't save everyone and be everywhere at once) in the face of his otherwise godlike powers. The SECOND film could be about "What gives YOU the right to decide?" and challenging not his power, but his judgment in how and when he uses that power.

I'd love to see those films!

 

[Alan Castillo]

So true in many ways. Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. I was starting to think it was age creeping up on me.

The 'exception' to the meaning of that article in general, is, IMO, 'The Mask of Zorro' / Antonio Banderas.

.... hang on a sec, that was like what, 15 years ago :confused

Forget my post, I'd classify 15 years ago in the 'true heros' nostalgia era.

So yup, age is creeping up

 

[Michael Bergeron]

I feel like we have moved from true heroes to stories of overcomers... which at its core is an underdog story... and who doesn't love that. Why? Because at some level we all feel like underdogs and we all wish we could overcome something in our lives. By giving us underdog stories with flawed people we can relate to, we can live vicariously through their wins while comfortably sitting and doing nothing about our own situation. To me this is a stark contrast to a true hero who isn't necessarily an overcomer, but is clearly on a moral/physical/mental platform above us and who inspires us to strive to their greatness.

I don't like it and I'll tell ya why.

Throughout history those who change the world are, for the majority, people who worked hard to get where they are and have earned their place in history. A hero for me is the underdog because of what they're fighting against, not because they wasted their life and then got thrust into something. Modern superheroes have more in common with Hancock than a true Spiderman, Superman, or Batman and that bothers me to no end.

Heroes are there to inspire us, not to be relatable. They should make us strive to be better.

The Kirk example:

The original character was studious in school, innovative, and well respected throughout his career. He got where he was by working hard and having a strong goal in mind.

Flash forward to the new character. "He's a rebel!" Is screamed at us to the tune of the Beastie Boys and we see him as a loser in a bar who one day has someone come up to him and say "Hey, you're awesome. Do this and you'll be great". Then our only visuals of him in school are of a womanizing idiot who doesn't have any respect for what he's doing. Then he saves the universe. Great, real example to everyone.

If you'll excuse me I'm going to go and wallow in a bar lazily and wait for greatness to come to me.

- - - Updated - - -

So yup, age is creeping up

Creeping? Hell, it's thrown you in a burlap sack and got you in the trunk of a car by now! :lol

 

[Alan Castillo]

Creeping? Hell, it's thrown you in a burlap sack and got you in the trunk of a car by now! :lol

:darnkids:darnkids:darnkids

:lol

 

[Solo4114]

I don't like it and I'll tell ya why.

Throughout history those who change the world are, for the majority, people who worked hard to get where they are and have earned their place in history. A hero for me is the underdog because of what they're fighting against, not because they wasted their life and then got thrust into something. Modern superheroes have more in common with Hancock than a true Spiderman, Superman, or Batman and that bothers me to no end.

Heroes are there to inspire us, not to be relatable. They should make us strive to be better.

The Kirk example:

The original character was studious in school, innovative, and well respected throughout his career. He got where he was by working hard and having a strong goal in mind.

Flash forward to the new character. "He's a rebel!" Is screamed at us to the tune of the Beastie Boys and we see him as a loser in a bar who one day has someone come up to him and say "Hey, you're awesome. Do this and you'll be great". Then our only visuals of him in school are of a womanizing idiot who doesn't have any respect for what he's doing. Then he saves the universe. Great, real example to everyone.

If you'll excuse me I'm going to go and wallow in a bar lazily and wait for greatness to come to me.

- - - Updated - - -



Creeping? Hell, it's thrown you in a burlap sack and got you in the trunk of a car by now! :lol

New Kirk is a lousy example, I grant you.

But parts of that story are worthwhile. Someone who starts off with a chip on their shoulder or whathaveyou, but who learns the value of teamwork, discipline, self-sacrifice, hard work, all of that. And THEN triumphs. I think the problem with New Kirk is that all the stuff in the middle is lost and what you have is, well, what Pike tells him at the start of the second film: a guy who gets by on luck, mostly, and who hasn't learned to respect the rules.

 

[dascoyne]

Noah Taylor in Flirting