Accident on the set of Rust.

[DarthWilder]

That’s actually a good analagy. If the prop master handed an actor a “prop” hand grenade and said pull the pin, and it turned out to be a real grenade and exploded, who’s responsible. I would say the prop master.

Yes, it's a good example! First AFIAK, there is no SOP to determine whether a grenade is inert. In this case, if an armorer handed me a "fake" grenade, I would still ask him to pull the pin first and toss it away to a safe distance. Even still, my first thought was that a prop grenade would have an empty cavity that could be inspected first, and googling this afterwards, I was right...

 

[Riceball]

Provided that 5 year old had taken a gun safety course.

I see a lot of "responsible" gun owners here who can't wait to absolve themselves of any respinsibility as soon as their gun is in someone else's hands.
How is that responsible?

The thing is, AB isn't exactly a noob when it comes to guns. he's made a number of movies before this one involving guns. So he should most definitely have known better than to simply accept somebody's word that a gun they were just handed is unloaded. Nobody here is saying that the AD and the armorer don't bear responsibility for this tragedy, what many of us are trying to say is that AB isn't innocent either. He's done enough films with guns before that, by now, he should have some knowledge of firearms safety. His experience on the previous sets with firearms should have told him that something was wrong in that he was just simply handed a gun and was told that it was cold without being shown that it was cold. He could have and should have either asked to be shown that the weapon was indeed cold or checked it for himself.

 

[Lord Boron]

Yes, it's a good example! First AFIAK, there is no SOP to determine whether a grenade is inert. In this case, if an armorer handed me a "fake" grenade, I would still ask him to pull the pin first and toss it away to a safe distance. Even still, my first thought was that a prop grenade would have an empty cavity that could be inspected first, and googling this afterwards, I was right...

Yes, we both know a dummied grenade would be hollow, and lighter, but do you think if you handed someone like Lindsay Lohan a prop grenade, or any sort of prop weapons, she could tell the difference from a real one. That’s why there are experts who are suppose to oversee these things, and make sure everything is safe.

 

[Axlotl]

The thing is, AB isn't exactly a noob when it comes to guns. he's made a number of movies before this one involving guns. So he should most definitely have known better than to simply accept somebody's word that a gun they were just handed is unloaded. Nobody here is saying that the AD and the armorer don't bear responsibility for this tragedy, what many of us are trying to say is that AB isn't innocent either. He's done enough films with guns before that, by now, he should have some knowledge of firearms safety. His experience on the previous sets with firearms should have told him that something was wrong in that he was just simply handed a gun and was told that it was cold without being shown that it was cold. He could have and should have either asked to be shown that the weapon was indeed cold or checked it for himself.

I assume everyone is a noob around guns. I never hand anyone a loaded gun. If they know guns and take the initiative to make sure it's clear themselves, great. But I never assume that anyone knows how. Even if I know they know, I don't hand them a loaded gun.

You and I and everyone else in this thread would have checked and cleared the gun ourselves. AB didn't and there happened to be a live bullet in his prop revolver.
Unless he put that bullet there himself, he is absolutely not 100% at fault.
Whoever put a real bullet in a prop gun and gave it to AB is absolutely 100% at fault as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DarthWilder]

***Dupe video posted. (I hadn't reloaded the page.)

 

[gregory]

Have you ever taken a firearms safety course? Because the first thing they teach you is the four immutable safety rules and THEN how to clear a weapon. And that lesson is BEFORE you even get to touch a gun. When it's time to finally handle a gun, the instructor will clear the weapon with the action open, and then you are handed the gun and expected to do the same check to show it is unloaded. This is standard operating procedure that even a five year old can understand.

Not sure how they do things in the States, when I took my first firearms course in Canada they had all sorts of deactivated firearms pistols, rifles, shotguns no actual ammunition with various actions on site they had snap caps and dummy rounds. No responsible firearms user hands a firearm to someone who isn’t trained. When you show the person the firearm is clear before handing it to them and that person checks it in return people are safe in fact even TVs are safe in that scenario.

 

[DarthWilder]

Not sure how they do things in the States, when I took my first firearms course in Canada they had all sorts of deactivated firearms pistols, rifles, shotguns no actual ammunition with various actions on site they had snap caps and dummy rounds. No responsible firearms user hands a firearm to someone who isn’t trained. When you show the person the firearm is clear before handing it to them and that person checks it in return people are safe in fact even TVs are safe in that scenario.

Agreed. And even though they use "deactivated" firearms in Canada for training, the four rules still apply — especially: "TREAT EVERY GUN AS IF IT IS LOADED."

 

[Moviefreak]

(FYI, I don't condone or agree with the title of this video. I'm just providing the link due to relevancy.)

Posted on last page

 

[DarthWilder]

Yes, we both know a dummied grenade would be hollow, and lighter, but do you think if you handed someone like Lindsay Lohan a prop grenade, or any sort of prop weapons, she could tell the difference from a real one. That’s why there are experts who are suppose to oversee these things, and make sure everything is safe.

Did you read the SAG rules? I would imagine that any armorer worth their salt would show/explain to Lindsay WHY the grenade is inert! In fact, that's why they are experts.

 

[Riceball]

I assume everyone is a noob around guns. I never hand anyone a loaded gun. If they know guns and take the initiative to make sure it's clear themselves, great. But I never assume that anyone knows how. Even if I know they know, I don't hand them a loaded gun.

You and I and everyone else in this thread would have checked and cleared the gun ourselves. AB didn't and there happened to be a live bullet in his prop revolver.
Unless he put that bullet there himself, he is absolutely not 100% at fault.
Whoever put a real bullet in a prop gun and gave it to AB is absolutely 100% at fault as far as I'm concerned.

The fact that AB apparently just blindly took the word of the AD that the gun was cold does put him at fault. He's no 5 year old handed a gun for the first time; he's a veteran actor with many movies under his belt, a fair number of them involving firearms. So, unless every other movie with a gun in it that he's been in was done the same way with someone simply handing him a gun and saying that it's cold without first showing to him that it is actually unloaded, then he is at fault, certainly not 100% but not completely innocent either. Just because he's an actor filming a movie, the rules of firearm safety still apply and, from what I understand, those rules are still followed on movie/TV sets as SOP per SAG rules.

 

[robstyle]

Does anyone care to put opinions to rest and:

Type "1" if you believe AB is guilty and should be burned at the stake.

Type "2" if you believe a full investigation should be conducted to present the facts in the case.

 

[Psab keel]

-Arming 5 year olds.

 

[JPH]

So, when my friend Alice, who has never even held a gun before, much less fired one, shot my friend Rick's television after he handed her a loaded gun - without telling her it was loaded... she's 100% responsible, because she should have known how to unload a gun she's never handled before, and Rick is completely off the hook, because even though he gave her a loaded gun, it was her responsibility to clear it, whether she knows how to or not? Am I reading that right?

It is YOUR responsibility as a responsible gun owner NOT to give people loaded guns. Just as it was the armorer's responsibility, and the AD's responsibility, to NOT give AB a loaded gun.

I agree this accident could have been avoided if AB had cleared the gun himself. But he shouldn't have had to. This was a movie set, not a shooting range. There shouldn't have been a single live bullet anywhere near that set.

Heyyyy man,

So, like, my friend who has never, ever held a gun before was handed a loaded gun and shot a tv with it.

Wow! It was TOTALLLY like this whole Alec Baldwin thing, man.

Like EXACTLY the same.

***VOICE OF SANITY: So, was Alice contractually obligated to take a gun safety course before even TOUCHING a gun, like Mr. Baldwin?

Well, um, nooooo. But you don't see how it was, like, EXACTLY the same.

***VOICE OF SANITY: DId she point it at a human being and kill them?

Hooo, no, but I can see what you're getting at, and YOU just don't understand my PERFECT COMPARISON!!!

***VOICE OF SANITY: Alice had never used a firearm before, Mr. Baldwin has done several movies and knew the rules and the etiquette. Heck! He even placed SHIELDS around the EQUIPMENT to protect it.

Hey person, I'm gonna IGNORE you, because YOU don't wanna listen!

***VOICE OF SANITY: You *DO* realize that BASIC GUN SAFETY, which Mr. Baldwin HAD to have been taught or would not even be holding a gun on the set, required that he know to CHECK his gun before accepting it, AND *NOT* to POINT it at anyone.

(EDIT HANDS OVER EARS) La la la!!! You just HATE Alec Baldwin!

 

[TazMan2000]

I’m happy that there are so many members here that are responsible gun owners.
Unfortunately the irresponsible ones outnumber you by a thousandfold.

TazMan2000

 

[JoeG]

Did you read the SAG rules? I would imagine that any armorer worth their salt would show/explain to Lindsay WHY the grenade is inert! In fact, that's why they are experts.

SAG-AFTRA is not a regulatory body. They're a labor union. They can make rules about what their memberships conduct should be, but other than that what can they do? Expel someone from the union? No one is going to go to jail for not following SAG-AFTRA rules. Those would only come into play in a civil suit, not a criminal case.

 

[Moviefreak]

Does anyone care to put opinions to rest and:

Type "1" if you believe AB is guilty and should be burned at the stake.

Type "2" if you believe a full investigation should be conducted to present the facts in the case.

We could hope that will happen.

 

[Axlotl]

I see a certain troll is still trolling.
How is this child not banned yet?

 

[scarf man]

I see a certain troll is still trolling.
How is this child not banned yet?

Mods are asleep, free post.

 

[JPH]

SAG-AFTRA is not a regulatory body. They're a labor union. They can make rules about what their memberships conduct should be, but other than that what can they do? Expel someone from the union? No one is going to go to jail for not following SAG-AFTRA rules. Those would only come into play in a civil suit, not a criminal case.

Hmmm, not a regulatory body.

It may not be a government agency, but you honestly don't think Unions regulate their members? XD

Why do they even have a CONTRACT about gun usage?

So, no benefits from being members of SAG, and no rules that you have to follow, even though on this very thread, the gun use contract with SAG is linked and EXTREMELY regulatory. Wow! Don't believe my lying eyes.

 

[Riceball]

Does anyone care to put opinions to rest and:

Type "1" if you believe AB is guilty and should be burned at the stake.

Type "2" if you believe a full investigation should be conducted to present the facts in the case.

Type "3" if you believe that Alec Baldwin bears at least some culpability for this tragedy and should face at least some legal consequences that amount to more than just a mere slap on the wrist.