Behind the scenes discipline

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, I haven't gotten any points so far as I can tell (and no PMs, though I'm sure to get one now) but I have gotten called out plenty of times, had people follow my apparently call-out worthy behavior with things like outright insults and other nastiness, ask for fairness on my behalf, and then received a milquetoast, "Everyone knock it off, let's get on topic," response from the mod. So it's a fair question if one is going to brag so highly on their propriety.:lol :confused

Yes to your question, we were discussing "formal" infraction points, or "pips" as we colloquially call them among the staff.

There used to be three strikes/warnings/steps/points/pips before a member was on his very last "and we mean it this time" chance, at which point he/she would be banned if another violation occurred. We would give an informal "verbal warning" via PM before any pips were given.

But we found that we could never remember if a member had previously been given a PM warning for a specific behavior or not, so people ended up getting informal warning after informal warning and never being "pipped".

So we went from three strikes to four, and used the PM warning as the first formal pip, just so we'd have a record that one had been given. (points are recorded as part of an admin-only accessible portion of a user's profile, so we can always find out where a member stands)

In practice, people pretty much still get informal non-pip PM warnings anyway, so if anything it's now HARDER to get banned than ever.

That was the case with Juno's...she and ortiz had gone toe to toe and they were asked privately (and maybe in the thread, I don't remember) to keep away from each other. So when she created a thread to make a point about him, we finally gave the "official" first verbal warning and "pip".

Just a little glimpse inside our dastardly doings. ;)
 
Just a little glimpse inside our dastardly doings. ;)

Do you have to continue to be sarcastic about it? All I'm asking for is a little transparency from the administration because it frustrates me to see things that appear to be unreasonable. Am I cuckoo-cuckoo head for asking? Is the winky face supposed to make me feel better about it?

Oh, and for the record, I'm not the least bit embarrassed about you posting the reasons behind my infraction point.
 
Just a little glimpse inside our dastardly doings. ;)

I don't think you're evil (dastardly), Jay. Never said that. And, yes, it was obvious who I was referring to, as you have publically called me on behavior.

But this is what Juno is talking about. If people were more aware of how things run, if things were in the open (if they're on the up-and-up) then when someone like Juno gets a point for finally going over the line on ortiz, a member, who, in the few years I've been here, hasn't seemed to contribute anything more than a string of inane OT forum threads and mildly vicious barbs, people would also be more comfortable when they see him get his just desserts.

When the members find out about someone like Juno, who's contributed greatly to both research and prop runs, getting a 'pip' while ortiz goes around using the intimation of homosexuality as a slur, gets jumped on by several members, and then gloats about their indignation hopefully getting them more 'pips' and he gets no rebuke from the mods whatsoever, something smells like a pile of crap covered in rotten fish in Denmark. And if you think members are being unreasonable for thinking there's a conspiracy when contributing members get slapped down and those who start useless threads get away with gloating, then you need to give up the moderatorship to someone who does understand basic human reactions to situations. Because that smells like a "conspiracy" if by "conspiracy" you mean people who are on friendlier mod terms get away with more bullhocky.

I've had you jump on me, the last one being in a thread with Agent5 throwing an apoplectic fit because I didn't want to discuss what he wanted to discuss, then, when he actually starts insulting me and I point it out, you offer a halfhearted "Everyone knock it off," instead of calling him on his crap. Tactics like that, bluntly, obviously hypocritic tactics are what lead people to think the mods have backdoor friendships. On average (because there're always a few nuts, but for the sake of this discussion, they're not applicable) people don't just make these ideas of cabals up out of thin air. It's seeing a mod use two different tactics with two members in the same thread that make them think this stuff.

Also, Juno hasn't come in here with her eyes closed, arms flailing, slapping willy-nilly. She's been extremely reasoned in her words and responses and has received an undo amount of smart-alecky responses in return. So that makes the whole, "You people just don't get how hard we mods have it," difficult to swallow because it shows that you guys obviously have it hard enough that you would all like adult-level respect while being able to dish out teenage-level sarcasm. I can buy it a little more if people have been rude to you in the first place, but Juno has been more than reasonable, even taking partial blame on herself where many can see no blame is do and yet she receives snark and guff. So it's also not unreasonable for people to not give a crap about "how hard it is for the mods" if the mods can't remain civil in the first place and end up always responding to the faintest whiff of criticism with a sarcasticness that's completely uncalled for.
 
Last edited:
I don't think there has been any sort of off-board 'conspiracy' against the mods for what, two, three years?

The last group of rabble rousers, including myself, posted on Dr S' forum, because we were banned here from talking about how the forums were being run.

The issuse then? Transparency, or the lack of it. :)

Of course, that forum (Dr S') we were labelled as rabble rousers, largeley due to the RPF kryptonite that resides there.

I see in Treadwell's posts that the old tar brush is coming out again :lol

Well, if Old Ken is insulted by what he sees as bashing the mods, then I am equally insulted by the tired old 'organised pile-on' insinations that are always rolled out when issues with the lack of transparancy in the moderation of the RPF inevitably rolls round again.

Take a look, Jay, and you will find a lot of contributions to this thread from members who weren't even around last time.

It's quite simple, and nothing to do with cliques, conspiracies or cronyism.

A lot of people who spend a lot of time contributing to this forum would like to know that it is being moderated fairly, openly, and with consistency. We want this not through false entitlement, but because we think it would make the forum better. For you to assume otherwise is as bad as us accusing you of cronyism and behind the scenes string pulling.
 
I don't think there has been any sort of off-board 'conspiracy' against the mods for what, two, three years?

The last group of rabble rousers, including myself, posted on Dr S' forum, because we were banned here from talking about how the forums were being run.

The issuse then? Transparency, or the lack of it. :)

Of course, that forum (Dr S') we were labelled as rabble rousers, largeley due to the RPF kryptonite that resides there.

I see in Treadwell's posts that the old tar brush is coming out again :lol

Well, if Old Ken is insulted by what he sees as bashing the mods, then I am equally insulted by the tired old 'organised pile-on' insinations that are always rolled out when issues with the lack of transparancy in the moderation of the RPF inevitably rolls round again.

Take a look, Jay, and you will find a lot of contributions to this thread from members who weren't even around last time.

It's quite simple, and nothing to do with cliques, conspiracies or cronyism.

A lot of people who spend a lot of time contributing to this forum would like to know that it is being moderated fairly, openly, and with consistency. We want this not through false entitlement, but because we think it would make the forum better. For you to assume otherwise is as bad as us accusing you of cronyism and behind the scenes string pulling.

Birdie Well stated...
 
I am currantly sick as a dog (probably first steps of the flu) and probably not the best time for me to try and make any sense...

I just wish that more people had some understanding that there isnt some big conspiricy, or big headed rule with an iron fist mentality.

There is so much the staff has to deal with, that after reading all the negative posts it just really makes you want to walk away.

Havent others went on to make there own paradise non-RPF prop forums?

How did that work out?

I agree that there are some old school rules that could stand changing... in fact all the staff think so.

And EVERYONE is open to suggestions!!!

But in the manner of bashing the staff as a whole untill something is done?

What part of that seems like it would be good for all? When you want a law passed do you bring it up to your congressman or throw molitov coctails?

There are some serious conspiracy theorists here... for instance you really think that we sat and watched this thread and didnt say anything? Discussing the punishment for all? You think we cant admit human error?

I just now saw it.

Again, I think that there are alot of things that should be discussed and changed/fixed. But not with torches and pitchforks!!! :unsure

As a united community.

Can the staff force that to be?

No.

Would we want to if we could?

NO!

The power to make it better is in the hands of all.

I suggest using a bit more understanding AND tact.

Notice I said I didnt recieve Junos PM to the staff... Hrrm... could it be that there are still hiccups in the system? (no its surely the work of the diabolical staff!)

Seriuosly please... EVERYONE.

Lets try and make this a better place.

Let go of your hate.

Quit trying to place blame, and try and help find a solution to the problems that arise.

Let me also say. IVE NEVER BANNED ANYONE. Never even givin a PIP. I try and be a helping hand and voice of reason. And where has that gotten me?

Here, now. :cry

LOL!

Seriously though, from the bottom of my heart. I love this place. I love the talent that people like Juno posess and share with the community.

Why cant we work together?

Lets make this place what it could be, what it SHOULD be. Lets try and find common ground, and try and be understanding that what is good for one isnt good for all. So sometimes we cant all get what we want.

Im willing to do whatever I can. And I know the rest of the staff is. But it sure would be nice to do it without all the negativity.

Im seriously dizzy, I have a fever and am sweating as I type this.

sincerely, hoping to make a better tomorrow for all.

Ken

Ken good in theory but contradictory to pretty much everything the current staff has shown as policy... Sorry just a long time observation...

If you and the current staff want a community and you want to remove much of the hate towards the staff here, it's simply stop using your positions and self appointed authority to curve grown adults into the mold you believe they should conform to... Stop using banning and exiling people for nothing short of personal grudges and feelings... If the staff wants to ban real crooks, thieves, re-casters, and sexual predators, I doubt you will find much resistance...

It's only when you sit in on the thrown with the key to the forum in your hand and your other hand on the ban button banning because a member bugs the staff, rubs them the wrong way, or is refused entry because of a stupid policy like the "once gone, never welcome back" policy or they wont sign the "I'll play nice letter" have I ever mentioned how damn childish and grade school mentality that letter is... Not to mention an issue like what was brought up in this thread where a member was wrongfully banned yet again and rather that owe up to a wrong doing yet again and give the member a second chance, the staff hardballs the original decision and manifest a whole new scenario that fits their needs and calls that justification for the staffs first actions...

This is what creates the hostility, you have people and friends of these people that were part of this community that did nothing but rub someone wrong and for that they got life in exile... And you really have to asked why there is hostility, really? Only the gravest of criminal crimes in most of the civilized world demand equal life long punishment, yet you dish it out here when members don't play nice and jab someone in the ribs, contrary to the utopia behaviour by modification policy... And with policy and actions like this do you actually have to wonder where the rule by iron fist picture painted on the staff here comes from?
 
Well, from a noob mods POV, there is so much that goes on behind the scenes it's hard to keep up. I've gone from surfing the RPF 100% of my time logged in, to about 30 - 40%, the rest of it is sorting out members problems from advising the admin of forgotten passwords, changing email addys to locating a members password AND name using their email as a guide to start the investigation. Then there's other requests, complaints and reported posts, it's quite amazing what goes on to keep this place running. I'm a mod on another site on the net and it's nothing like this, however, it doesn't have the amount of members either.



We don't sit with our hands on the ban button, in fact, there is a lengthy discussion and investigation of previous conduct before even a warning. However, it is a 4 strikes and your out type of deal, frankly, I think that's fair. If the person really wanted to be a part of the community, they follow the rules, it's all in the CoC, if they don't they aren't welcome. I think the CoC is the key, if a person doesn't want to follow the CoC, then this place isn't for them, so why join?



On the issue of private or "behind the scenes" discipline, I think it's pretty self explanatory, it's for privacy and the saving of face. Let's say Joe A complains about Joe B, Joe B gets publicly disciplined, Joe A does his best Nelson (The Simpson's) impersonation "Ha Ha", how good would Joe B feel?



Just making an observation. I admire the current staff, they do the best they can given the time they have away from their family and friends. It's a thankless job, takes a ton of time a day to do, and one, I and my fellow staff take very seriously and wouldn't give it up for the world.

Keep on rockin' RPF!!!

Cheers,

Kraig
 
Last edited by a moderator:
However, it is a 4 strikes and your out type of deal, frankly, I think that's fair. If the person really wanted to be a part of the community, they follow the rules, it's all in the CoC, if they don't they aren't welcome. I think the CoC is the key, if a person doesn't want to follow the CoC, then this place isn't for them, so why join?

Don't forget the most important clause of this highly fair CoC you speak so highly of "the RPF Staff may omit any or all steps in this system."
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yep, and it's all part of the rules of which each and everyone one of us agree to when we become a member :)

Cheers,

Kraig
 
On the issue of private or "behind the scenes" discipline, I think it's pretty self explanatory, it's for privacy and the saving of face. Let's say Joe A complains about Joe B, Joe B gets publicly disciplined, Joe A does his best Nelson (The Simpson's) impersonation "Ha Ha", how good would Joe B feel?

Then you apply the no baiting rule on Joe A ?
 
Generally Joe A is an anonymous party, if he were equally at fault, then he would get an infraction, banning would depend on how many strikes he'd had to his name previously. Generally the "Ha ha" would be felt by the other party, hence the reason to keep things private. However, there has possibly been instances where it has been voiced via PM or even in a post, but that was before my time.

Cheers,

Kraig
 
Last edited:
Yep, and it's all part of the rules of which each and everyone one of us agree to when we become a member :)

Cheers,

Kraig

Sorry but it wasn't in the rules when I became a member...

But, I expect nothing of a cop out answer like that, welcome to the staff you fit in quite well...
 
Sorry but it wasn't in the rules when I became a member...

But, I expect nothing of a cop out answer like that, welcome to the staff you fit in quite well...

Well well, quite the drama here.

I can tell you folks that this is no cakewalk here.

The process for banning and giving infractions is made quite clear. And yes, sometimes the severity of things warrants skipping some of the steps. Just like anything else in life. Severe things need to be dealt with severely for the good of the community.

None of you understand just how much of our time we volunteer to keep this place running. And hearing these constant complaints, calls for transparency and whatever else it is you want is very draining.

I work 50 hours a week in my job, my wife works full time and we have three children under the age of 7 plus I run my own business. I still find time to come in and help out here. Do I always make the right decisions? Probably not. But I try my best to use the best judgment I can in everything that goes on here. My heart is in the right place and I am offended by people who constantly complain or who are never pleased. I am transparent in my own opinions when it comes to policy as are the rest of the mod team. It's all laid out in black & white. And we do not need to bother the membership with every little detail of everything that unfolds here, my time here is limited as it is and more administrative stuff is the last thing I need with the limited amount of time I have.

You think you can do a better job sir? Easy for those on the outside to criticize.
 
Well well, quite the drama here.

I can tell you folks that this is no cakewalk here.

The process for banning and giving infractions is made quite clear. And yes, sometimes the severity of things warrants skipping some of the steps. Just like anything else in life. Severe things need to be dealt with severely for the good of the community.

None of you understand just how much of our time we volunteer to keep this place running. And hearing these constant complaints, calls for transparency and whatever else it is you want is very draining.

I work 50 hours a week in my job, my wife works full time and we have three children under the age of 7 plus I run my own business. I still find time to come in and help out here. Do I always make the right decisions? Probably not. But I try my best to use the best judgment I can in everything that goes on here. My heart is in the right place and I am offended by people who constantly complain or who are never pleased. I am transparent in my own opinions when it comes to policy as are the rest of the mod team. It's all laid out in black & white. And we do not need to bother the membership with every little detail of everything that unfolds here, my time here is limited as it is and more administrative stuff is the last thing I need with the limited amount of time I have.

You think you can do a better job sir? Easy for those on the outside to criticize.


Have you read the thread? The mocking tone and the defense of the other mods when I've clearly pointed out examples that prove contrary indicate you haven't.
 
Thanks :) I hope I suit the staff and help the RPF and all who sail in her well.

I don't know what the CoC contained when you joined, but things change, it's something you're going to have to get used to. You've read the CoC and are aware of it's contents? You disagree with some of it, yet remain a member, why? Nobody's forcing you to stay.

I love the "Insta-Enemy syndrome", for some reason it always seems to happen when a person is given some responsibility, some people think they change, I've seen it over and over again, not just on the net, but in real life too, it's quite fascinating. Is it some kind of antiestablishmentarianism? I thought that sort of died out in the 70s.

I haven't changed, I'm still me, no change in attitude, I still try and be polite and nice to people, that's why most of my posts contain smilies :)


Anyway, this thread has strayed quite a bit from the original question/opinion on private discipline. I think most of the mods have given their reasons as to why it is the way it is.

Cheers,

Kraig
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cue up cliché answer...

You disagree with some of it, yet remain a member, why? Nobody's forcing you to stay.

The same reason I remain a citizen of the United States even though I don't like the current government... Believe it or not, not everyone runs to the other side of the hill in hopes of greener grass...

I love the "Insta-Enemy syndrome", for some reason it always seems to happen when a person is given some responsibility, some people think they change, I've seen it over and over again, not just on the net, but in real life too, it's quite fascinating. Is it some kind of antiestablishmentarianism? I thought that sort of died out in the 70s.


Care to elaborate more in detail, as I believe it's more about your actions and the people you hold company with, then any position you hold... My respect if given and my friends are chose by their actions, and interactions with me, not by the position they hold... I have, and continue to have good interactions and communication with several current and past staff members here, at least on a one to one private basis...

So if you feel that you are an "
"Insta-Enemy" of mine because you are part of the staff you are sadly mistaken, but if this ""Insta-Enemy" syndrome makes it easier for you to swallow the fact that I don't like your responses and actions in this thread and choose to disagree, then go with it...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You disagree with some of it, yet remain a member, why? Nobody's forcing you to stay

:lolYou guys really need to get get some new material. Same old crap, different year.

Since you ask, I stay for the occasionlal neat revelations, and for the occasional neat links to Youtube vids and Flash Games.

Oh, and because I've been a member since 2000 and remember the days before the Wampa regime and its institutionalized cronyism and masonic nanny-culture became the norm.

I've a lot of time for some of the mods on this board. Others not so much. No offense dude, I'm sure you're a cool guy and all, but I'd never heard of you before you got made a mod.

I guess I do think that some of the newb mods that have pitched up in this thread lack a sense of history of the RPF and the events that have lead to folk like Exoray and myself making some of the observations we have.

It's clear that nothing at all has changed in the overall mindset of the moderating team over the last few years, it's still 'we rool' and funny handshakes with their buddies.

While Gavidoc was a crazy dude and a terrible admin, his regime was at least a liveley and fun time to be on the RPF, so I guess I'll just keep hoping for another mad coup to occur to stir up the nursing home. Not a lot else to be said, really.
 
No offense dude, I'm sure you're a cool guy and all, but I'd never heard of you before you got made a mod.

No offense taken at all, considering the amount of threads per day and the number of members here, it's highly likely that a couple of members like us will miss eachother in passing :)

However, I do thank you for your post, it has made clear some of the reasons why you guys feel the way you do. A lot of us are not familiar with how the RPF was as most of us only know it in it's current form.

Cheers,

Kraig
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top