Behind the scenes discipline

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The same as it is easy for the people on the inside to let the title of authority blinded them from their actions and policy...

It's a two way road...

Authority? Authority? I think that is a strong word. The Prime Minister of Canada and the President of the USA are people who have real authority. I'm a mod on a damn prop forum. I have no real authority sir, I'm just a dude trying to help people in this hobby and who speaks up of behalf of the majority of the membership when people seek to plant seeds of discontent on this forum..... which in the grand scheme of life is very small and minor. And do I always do the best thing? Not all the time. Is my heart in the right place and do I try and do the best for the members of this forum as a whole? You bet your ass I do.
 
Have you read the thread? The mocking tone and the defense of the other mods when I've clearly pointed out examples that prove contrary indicate you haven't.

Yes sir, I have read this thread and while some good and valid points have been made I won't be able to get that hour of my life back. Same things we've all heard before.

Did you personally make some valid points? Absolutely. But instead of focusing on the 5% of things we could have done better why not talk about the 95% of things we do right? Such a small group of people focus on the negative and it really brings down everyone.

Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
 
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Yes sir, I have read this thread and while some good and valid points have been made I won't be able to get that hour of my life back. Same things we've all heard before.

Did you personally make some valid points? Absolutely. But instead of focusing on the 5% of things we could have done better why not talk about the 95% of things we do right? Such a small group of people focus on the negative and it really brings down everyone.

Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.

So what you're saying (by not addressing anything I actually said, and by responding with bumper-sticker pabulum that's not applicable in any way shape or form) that you didn't read any of my posts and are lumping me in with the "I hate the mods!" crowd.

:unsure

Okay.
 
So what you're saying (by not addressing anything I actually said, and by responding with bumper-sticker pabulum that's not applicable in any way shape or form) that you didn't read any of my posts and are lumping me in with the "I hate the mods!" crowd.

:unsure

Okay.

No sir I am not. In fact, I didn't even specifically mention your name once. And I really don't care if my answers are acceptable to you to be quite honest sir, they are what they are.
 
Let me address these points personally.

I'll sum it up here: We feel no need to air dirty laundry for all to see. To do so is simply a gang mentality..... everyone pick on the bad guy.

Issues are addressed and are dealt with privately in most instances for the good of the community as a whole, or rather what the administration of this forum feels is for the good of the community as a whole.

You know that Juno got a pip because she decided to come out and tell everyone. That's her right to do that if she chooses. We will nto violate someone else's right to privacy. Why don't you write some of the other people mentioned in your comments to see if they have a pip? It is their prerogative if they choose to tell you or not and in the interests of privacy we choose to have private PM's for most issues that require administrative intervention.

I would love to be able to log on here every day and the most I have to do is move a thread or delete a thread in the junkyard. Unfortunately that is not the case. It is not like we get some sort of sick thrill or feeling of power by intervening. Most of us hate it in fact but we have to do it.

Again, you do not know if these people have been dealt with or not and it is ignorant to assume they have not. That's all I will say.

But this is what Juno is talking about. If people were more aware of how things run, if things were in the open (if they're on the up-and-up) then when someone like Juno gets a point for finally going over the line on ortiz, a member, who, in the few years I've been here, hasn't seemed to contribute anything more than a string of inane OT forum threads and mildly vicious barbs, people would also be more comfortable when they see him get his just desserts.

When the members find out about someone like Juno, who's contributed greatly to both research and prop runs, getting a 'pip' while ortiz goes around using the intimation of homosexuality as a slur, gets jumped on by several members, and then gloats about their indignation hopefully getting them more 'pips' and he gets no rebuke from the mods whatsoever, something smells like a pile of crap covered in rotten fish in Denmark. And if you think members are being unreasonable for thinking there's a conspiracy when contributing members get slapped down and those who start useless threads get away with gloating, then you need to give up the moderatorship to someone who does understand basic human reactions to situations. Because that smells like a "conspiracy" if by "conspiracy" you mean people who are on friendlier mod terms get away with more bullhocky.

I've had you jump on me, the last one being in a thread with Agent5 throwing an apoplectic fit because I didn't want to discuss what he wanted to discuss, then, when he actually starts insulting me and I point it out, you offer a halfhearted "Everyone knock it off," instead of calling him on his crap. Tactics like that, bluntly, obviously hypocritic tactics are what lead people to think the mods have backdoor friendships. On average (because there're always a few nuts, but for the sake of this discussion, they're not applicable) people don't just make these ideas of cabals up out of thin air. It's seeing a mod use two different tactics with two members in the same thread that make them think this stuff.

Also, Juno hasn't come in here with her eyes closed, arms flailing, slapping willy-nilly. She's been extremely reasoned in her words and responses and has received an undo amount of smart-alecky responses in return. So that makes the whole, "You people just don't get how hard we mods have it," difficult to swallow because it shows that you guys obviously have it hard enough that you would all like adult-level respect while being able to dish out teenage-level sarcasm. I can buy it a little more if people have been rude to you in the first place, but Juno has been more than reasonable, even taking partial blame on herself where many can see no blame is do and yet she receives snark and guff. So it's also not unreasonable for people to not give a crap about "how hard it is for the mods" if the mods can't remain civil in the first place and end up always responding to the faintest whiff of criticism with a sarcasticness that's completely uncalled for.
 
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I'll sum it up here: We feel no need to air dirty laundry for all to see.

Well that's not right is it or there would be no banned member thread.

instead of focusing on the 5% of things we could have done better why not talk about the 95% of things we do right?

Tell me do you telephone the postal service every time they deliver on time and in one piece a parcel ? or only when they lose or damage one ?

Don't like the way it's run here?

Take a walk and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.


Wow real adult.

Instead of coming out and insulting people why not take the high ground and say "yes we have read everyones concerns and will be discussing them" and then come back and explain why things are the way they are rather than "well that's the way it is".
This isn't some kind of personal attack on you or any other member of staff it's people questioning the system that's all.
 
Don't like the way it's run here?

Take a walk and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

You asked the question. I gave you an answer. If you don't want to hear the truth, that, yes, basically I could perform the job better than you, why bother to even ask?

After pissing and moaning about how your busy life prevents you from peforming the most basic moderating duties like actually logging on and checking out new theads, you then react to an answer to your own question with the usual old cliche, in the manner of a petulant eleven year old.

So, to re-emphasise my answer to your question, yes I could do the job better than you. For the reasons outlined above, and because I give a crap about what the actual membership of this forum feels about how it is run, not just my quorum of back-slapping, thin-skinned buddies.
 
On the contrary my friend, I never pissed and moaned about my life at all. I simply stated I was a busy man and that I am. I never once said that my lack of time prevents me from doing anything. Here is what I wrote:

Darth Kahnt said:
"I work 50 hours a week in my job, my wife works full time and we have three children under the age of 7 plus I run my own business. I still find time to come in and help out here. Do I always make the right decisions? Probably not. But I try my best to use the best judgment I can in everything that goes on here. My heart is in the right place and I am offended by people who constantly complain or who are never pleased. I am transparent in my own opinions when it comes to policy as are the rest of the mod team. It's all laid out in black & white. And we do not need to bother the membership with every little detail of everything that unfolds here, my time here is limited as it is and more administrative stuff is the last thing I need with the limited amount of time I have."

Where in that paragraph do I complain? I am simply stating a fact that I am busy. I don't complain about my life and I love it the way it is. Where in that paragraph do I say I am prevented from doing basic duites? I would suggest you stop misquoting me my friend.

And I responded to your statement in the same way you responded to mine. Bluntly and from the heart. Misquoting people, twiesting around their words and you say you can do a better job? I highly doubt it. Go bark up another tree.

You asked the question. I gave you an answer. If you don't want to hear the truth, that, yes, basically I could perform the job better than you, why bother to even ask?

After pissing and moaning about how your busy life prevents you from peforming the most basic moderating duties like actually logging on and checking out new theads, you then react to an answer to your own question with the usual old cliche, in the manner of a petulant eleven year old.

So, to re-emphasise my answer to your question, yes I could do the job better than you. For the reasons outlined above, and because I give a crap about what the actual membership of this forum feels about how it is run, not just my quorum of back-slapping, thin-skinned buddies.
 
Well that's not right is it or there would be no banned member thread.

That's a different story. The membership needs to know when someone is banned but they don't need to hear every single little detail behind it.

Tell me do you telephone the postal service every time they deliver on time and in one piece a parcel ? or only when they lose or damage one ?

I actually do take the time to let people know when they are doing a good... whether it is a grocery store clerk, a salesperson, someone in a call center, the postman or whoever. Some of us look for the positive things in life and look for ways to make people feel good rather than making them feel like crap. So yes, I do actually go out of my way to compliment people.

Wow real adult.

Instead of coming out and insulting people why not take the high ground and say "yes we have read everyones concerns and will be discussing them" and then come back and explain why things are the way they are rather than "well that's the way it is".
This isn't some kind of personal attack on you or any other member of staff it's people questioning the system that's all.

Because no matter what, everyone will not be happy. There will always be the select few, as there is right now, who whine and complain about everything. The board works well the way it is, only about 2% of the membership are complaining right now. The other 98% are off enjoying the forum and the hobby. That's what I am going to do later tonight when I log in.
 
And I responded to your statement in the same way you responded to mine. Bluntly and from the heart. Misquoting people, twiesting around their words and you say you can do a better job? I highly doubt it. Go bark up another tree

I didn't misquote you, I didn't quote you at all. Your message is clear, though that may not be what you intended. You do not have time to do this job properley. Why else would you go into extraneous detail about how busy your personal life is, if not to imply a lack of time to dedicate to your mod duties? Where's the relevance?
 
I never once said that my lack of time prevents me from doing anything.

You are listed as the moderator of this sub forum, but it took you nearly a month to even notice (wait never mind you still didn't notice it someone had to send you a message alerting you to it) a multiple page 40+ reply active thread... Sorry but, yes something prevented you from doing the basic of all mod task reading the few active threads in your forum... Maybe you are lazy, maybe you are busy, maybe for the last month you just forgot about this forum or maybe you just don't give a damn... But, in the end it's clearly obvious that something prevented you from doing even the basic functions of a mod in your own forum... Toss up another smoke screen excuse or put some kind of spin on it, but in the end it still boils down to the simple you slacked off...

Don't like the way it's run here?

Take a walk and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Perfect example of the childish attitude I would expect, real mature...

How about this one on the flip side of the coin, don't like the members picking on you and your moderation skills, quit?

See isn't that childish?

Authority? Authority? I think that is a strong word. The Prime Minister of Canada and the President of the USA are people who have real authority. I'm a mod on a damn prop forum. I have no real authority sir

Yeah, like I said authority, look it up in the dictionary...

1. persons in command
2. power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior

But instead of focusing on the 5% of things we could have done better why not talk about the 95% of things we do right?

Well I won't call it a 95/5 split but how about this rather then toss out childish insults and belittle the members, you work to fix the percentage of things you could do better?

The clear "just deal with or leave it attitude" towards the way you guys run the forum, is what brings the negativity... Just look at this thread and the staff replies, over half of them could have been shortened to "Don't like it leave, because we are right and you are wrong..."
 
I didn't misquote you, I didn't quote you at all. Your message is clear, though that may not be what you intended. You do not have time to do this job properley. Why else would you go into extraneous detail about how busy your personal life is, if not to imply a lack of time to dedicate to your mod duties? Where's the relevance?

The relevance is that inevitably things get missed. I'm human, the rest of the staff are human and human error is a part of any equation.... but I guess you wouldn't know that since you make no mistakes huh?

People are busy in their lives and let me tell you sir that as much as I love the RPF and this hobby that in my own life it is very unimportant next to things such as my children, wife and my career. These things occupy a greater part of my mind. So the fact that people have other priorities and that, believe it or not, I have more important things than the RPF makes it very relevant.
 
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You're taking this forum WAY too seriously Flynn. I am quite aware of the definition of authority but there is also the context of authority.

Flynn, if you spent half the time contributing to this hobby as you do picking apart the statements of members or sweating the small stuff you'd make great contributions, moreso than you already do. For the love of god man, this is a FORUM! A friggin' FORUM! How important is it in the grand scheme of life? This is a hobby man, get over yourself.... seriously. You're not a lawyer Flynn, stop pretending like you are. As C3PO once said: "Don't get technical with me". You know exactly the context I put authority in.... no mod here has any REAL authority.

I'm done with this thread. I'm sure the staff will discuss it privately and maybe some useful changes will come out of it that will help ease the concerns of some of the membership. There have definately been some great suggestions and hopefully we can work for the better good.
 
Flynn, if you spent half the time contributing to this hobby as you do picking apart the statements of members or sweating the small stuff you'd make great contributions, moreso than you already do. For the love of god man, this is a FORUM! A friggin' FORUM! How important is it in the grand scheme of life? This is a hobby man, get over yourself.... seriously. You're not a lawyer Flynn, stop pretending like you are.

Wow just wow... :thumbsdown
 
The relevance is that inevitably things get missed. I'm human, the rest of the staff are human and human error is a part of any equation.... but I guess you wouldn't know that since you make no mistakes huh?

Like the mistakes you guys admitted you made in the reasons for the bannings of Jhyphen, Moogybaby & Mycroft?

History shows that you (the mod team) maintained those bans anyway, simply because you didn't like them. You then hit the 'we we were going to ban them anyway for other crap button'.

Why didn' t you then, instead of opting for the reasons that were later revealedto be bs?

Once you've banned these people on erroneous charges, they are no longer here to post whether it's true or not that you had awarded them sufficient 'pips' to ban them anyway.

We have only your word. Kind of one-sided isnt it :unsure

This is the true heart of the rot of your secrecy,or lack of transparency, whatever. You can ban who you don't like, then trump up infractions after a member has gone so you don't have take responsibility for your mistakes (god forbid that should ever happen :rolleyes) and no-one is ever given evidence of the integrity of your claims, leading to threads like this.

Either you are your own worst enemies, or there really is corruption going on.

You're probably right that most members don't care (until it affects them or their buddies), but to use that as excuse is like saying that 90% of MCDonald's staff dont care if a colleague has his hand in the till. It doesn't make it right.
 
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Wow just wow... :thumbsdown

Well it's the truth Flynn. This is a friggin forum, a damn hobby for the love of God. It's so minor in life that it is probably almost insignificant.

Why don't you take all that passion and desire for reform that you put on the VOLUNTEER staff of this forum and direct it towards something worthwhile. Bono could use a man as passionate as yourself in his crusade to abolish African debt...... and I am not being sarcastic here Flynn. I'm dead serious. If someone who was as passionate as you are for reform was working on serious, world-impacting issues the world would probably be a little better to live in. Take your way with words, take your passion and use it for useful purposes instead of bashing people here who make a mistake from to time.

I'm seriously done with this thread now. I've spent too much time on it already. I will take the good and valid points from this and hope we can institute a little more transparency in the way decisions are made here. Ultimately, I accept the fact we will never please everyone but that's the way it goes. Just do the best you can as my Dad always said.
 
Well it's the truth Flynn.

Maybe as true as any statement I have made here and you have retaliated towards... I have noticed that you ignore actually taking on any of the issues anyone in this thread has brought up but rather as I stated in my first post in this thread you put a spin on it... Crying about how you don't have the time, it's only a hobby blah blah blah, and then turn towards personal attacks that have no bearing on the issues or staff actions and questions brought up in this thread...

Why don't you take all that passion and desire for reform that you put on the VOLUNTEER staff of this forum and direct it towards something worthwhile.

Thanks for telling me how to spend my time in addition to telling me who and what I am in the previous thread, if you believe that the 30 minutes or so that I spent replying to this thread this weekend amounts to passion, then you are sadly mistaken yet again...

Truth is if you had spent one single minute this last month reading this sub-forum that you VOLUNTEERED to moderate then a lot of the animosity in this thread could have been nipped before it escalated...

This is a friggin forum, a damn hobby for the love of God. It's so minor in life that it is probably almost insignificant.

If that is the way you feel then you have no business moderating it, turn over the title to someone who does care and considers it above insignificant...

Bono could use a man as passionate as yourself in his crusade to abolish African debt...... and I am not being sarcastic here Flynn. I'm dead serious. If someone who was as passionate as you are for reform was working on serious, world-impacting issues the world would probably be a little better to live in. Take your way with words, take your passion and use it for useful purposes instead of bashing people here who make a mistake from to time.

If you are dead serious about this then you are delusional...
 
Wow just wow... :thumbsdown

This whole thread is making me "wow". Let me preface the next bit by saying this; I have no desire to moderate this place. The owners of this forum should be the enforcers of the rules. It seems of late, and no offense to the current crop of mods, that the one criteria for moderator status is post count.

In the 5 years I have been here, I have seen this very same thread a few times. Granted, the actors are different, but the script is still the same. The mods make some behind the scenes attempt at governing this place, person A gets a bum deal and the pile on begins.

When I read things like "taking the forums too seriously", I laugh. Despite what we do here as buyers and sellers, this IS a serious forum. Goods and money exchange hands every single day here. Careers and businesses have been made or broken on this board. Not many other places can say that. So, for a mod to belittle a member's attitude about the board is bad form.

It is a job that they have volunteered for. For what reason, I don't even pretend to know. Is it a thirst for control or power? I don't know. So, when someone gets offended at another member who says "If you can't handle the job, quit", it becomes very telling. Not just to me, but every member with a pulse. It tells me that they get something out of the authority involved in being a mod.

Let me close by saying these behind the scenes points are just an odd thing. Juno, you seem like a reasonable person, but the thread you linked was CLEARLY baiting another member. I have only seen a few of the person's posts, and some were clearly trolling behavior. Maybe some of this justice needs to be out front for all to see.
 
To everyone in the thread, Staff and members alike:

Unfortunately these are the same arguments made by many of the same people over time and no matter what is done by what incarnation of the staff I do not think it is possible to satisfy everyone on our forum.

With over 4,000 in our membership, I think our volunteer staff does extremely well. Is everyone going to be 100% satisfied 100% of the time? No, but that is true with life as well. If we attempt to satisfy 100% of our membership we do set ourselves up for failure, so we strive to satisfy the majority the best that we can by maintaining forums where people who are passionate about prop collecting and building can come and make connections with other like minded individuals.

I have kept a pretty open mind during my staff tenure to many of these comments, but I do disagree with the comments made about "transparency." I believe that the actual management of this board has become much more process oriented, where members are free to make their own choices and be accountable for them. The CoC outlines the expectations of the membership and this process. When an individual earns their demerit, or pip, or violation (whatever you would like to call it) there is a consensus by the staff looking at the entire situation. When such a violation of the CoC is issued, the staff has already discussed it and the member is notified. A public list of actions taken by the staff when a member chooses to violate the CoC is unnecessary as many of these issues are rarely reoccurring and better handled discretely. It is unfortunate that this does not conform to anyones idea of a utopia, but it does work.

I disagree completely with those who believe that the staff enjoys banning members, we find no joy in such actions, but they are a necessity. Additionally, considering how few people do get banned compared to our membership, the number is extremely small; like I said, most issues we deal with are not reoccurring.

We do not revisit banning, they are earned by the member and the status is determined by the member; the staff just enforces the CoC. I will not discuss previous banning of specific members except to say that they made a choice.

In the end, this is just a forum, this is just a hobby, there is more to life than ones affiliation to an online forum. The RPF is not my identity, no matter how much I enjoy it, it is not me.

I appreciate your passion for the hobby. I am glad you all continue to stay engaged in the hobby, but I do implore everyone to focus on the hobby instead of the politics and drama of the hobby.

Best,

Bryan
 
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