Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Post-release)

[Halliwax]

Destroy the Sith, not the Dark Side. The Sith are not the Dark Side.

• "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999
• "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002
• "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
• "The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not a[n inherently] malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980
• "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it." - The Father

Sorry joker, I don’t buy it.. and I will not be convinced otherwise..

More poor writing that’s the only excuse

 

[HeartBlade]

Destroy the Sith, not the Dark Side. The Sith are not the Dark Side.

• "The overriding philosophy in Episode I—and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter—is the balance between good and evil." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999
• "In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything." -George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002
• "The idea of positive and negative, that there are two sides to an entity, a push and a pull, a yin and a yang, and the struggle between the two sides are issues of nature that I wanted to include in the film." -George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays
• "The Force has two sides - [Light and Dark]. It is not a[n inherently] malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 1980
• "I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil—everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars." -George Lucas, Times Magazine, 2002

"It is only here that I can control them. A family in balance. The light and the dark. Day with night. Destruction, replaced by creation...Too much light or dark would be the undoing of life as you understand it." - The Father

So bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness means what? If by your theory balance means both dark and light, why can’t Anakin as the chosen one bring balance as a Sith?

You could argue that the Jedi misinterpreted what the chosen one is supposed to be as Yoda began to suspect but we see that Anakin really was the one to destroy the Sith and fulfill his destiny. By killing Palpatine and also dying by his hand, he ended the Sith order and the rule of 2 (until that was undone by RoS).

I suppose you could argue that some “dark side” sentiments are needed. The Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy are overly strict and their lack of emotion (or the ability to express it) and their dogma that dark = bad contributed to their undoing and Luke established a more “balanced” order by being more emotional and caring for his friends. But balance doesn’t mean equal parts Jedi and Sith because if that were the case, Qui Gon was an absolute moron for pushing Anakin to be trained.

 

[squirk]

I enjoyed it thoroughly. Will see it multiple times.

My three dislikes, which I am guessing have already been thoroughly discussed above:

1.) The horses on the hull of the star destroyer was just dumb.

2.) Rey and Ben didn't need to kiss. Their bond/Force dyad did not need that romantic spin on it at the end.

3.) Really sloppy retconning of Rey's parents being "nobodies". I don't mind her being a Palpatine if that had been the plan from the start, but it seems like they just wanted to "un-do" Rian Johnson's idea (which I really liked) that the next generation of less-arrogant, more-grounded Jedi could come from anyone, anywhere. No bootstrapping off lineage, birthright or bloodline. A clean break and a fresh start.

 

[niennumb1]

A lot of my sadness in the time that passed from Jedi to Awakens is that the actors were all still very young and well to carry on another trilogy together, like potentially something of the Thrawn trilogy or something else in-between. Just so many years gone. But we all know Lucas was tired of it, but didn’t want anyone else’s hands in it except his own. The micromanaging of that was to blame for no more films coming until the prequels were announced.

I feel it’s been part of my inner struggle as well in that for all these years Luke, Han, and Leia have been pretty much immortalized in their age and characters. So many years have passed in the filmmaking and we didn’t get to see how things changed and so we are being brought back in at a time where they are beyond their “prime” and these new characters are the fresh blood and have to carry things forward, which I am fine with, but for many of us has felt like a rough transition as if you were working for a family owned business and moving to corporate, with some rough waters while the new management has come in changing how things are done, and many of the people are not happy about it.

I wish the transition of torch-passing was more smooth. We experienced some very harsh changes and it could have been done much more thoughtfully and, no pun intended, but forced through as quickly for whatever reason (likely quicker return on the $4b+ investment).

Getting to the original topic of this film, given the issues and divisiveness that happened over the course of the last 2 episodes, Rise of Skywalker was an impossible film to please all audiences in the Star Wars fandom. It will continue to be praised and criticized for years to come.

I have a feeling after this though everything to come will change. This is a hard lesson that Disney Star Wars have learned and will not be treating their story writing the way these 3 were done again. They MUST develop a clear roadmap the way Marvel has been getting handled so that everything clearly connects and makes sense. And they need the right people behind the scenes who enforce the lore and what can and can’t be done going into the future.

 

[The Brahma Bull]

I just watched it and it was okay.

The trilogy overall was not good in any way. TFA was a tribute to ANH, tlj was the biggest piece of **** ever hit theaters. And TROS was okay.

I liked the chemistry between Poe and Fin, Chewie, some parts of Kylo, Wedge and the overall look of the movie. I didn't expect anything good out of the ******** Ruin Johnsons crap offered to work with. I liked that JJ tried to put Rose in the background, would've loved it if she was killed of 2 seconds into the film. Fin wasn't the idiot again and I liked that. Poe was the only character acting kinda normal in tlj and so he was more believable than the others.

I didn't like the return of Palp, nearly everything out of Reys plot and Rey herself wasn't as bad as she was in tlj but she never was close to be a good protagonist or just an interesting character.

I think that Disney never had a plan or ideas for a whole trilogy and just tried to use the old characters as their foundation to put the new characters over. It does not even feel like a trilogy because of tlj, which really ruined everything. I really hate that they were not able to get a new bad guy and relied on the emperor and that they did a "Skywalker-Saga" which ended up being a Palpatine-Saga. The character of Rey just wasn't worth anything and if they had any balls Ben would be the one coming out on top.

 

[Kylash]

If Rey could sense Chewie alive up on the star destroyer, why couldn’t she sense that he wasn’t actually on the transport she blew up?

 

[Toadmeister]

If Rey could sense Chewie alive up on the star destroyer, why couldn’t she sense that he wasn’t actually on the transport she blew up?

Yeah, Another WTF moment in the writing.

In fact, it was so poorly accomplished on-screen it didn’t even fool me emotionally. I had no spoilers that told me what was going to happen either.

 

[Ron]

So Rey made out with Kylo and then declared herself his sister? There's that rhyming poetry again.

 

[squirk]

If Rey could sense Chewie alive up on the star destroyer, why couldn’t she sense that he wasn’t actually on the transport she blew up?

Since she didn’t know about the other transport, and was struggling back-and-forth with Kylo, maybe it was the absence of sensing Chewie on destroyed transport that made her think that? Just a guess?

 

[The Brahma Bull]

Since she didn’t know about the other transport, and was struggling back-and-forth with Kylo, maybe it was the absence of sensing Chewie on destroyed transport that made her think that? Just a guess?

They force grabbed the transporte before Kylo did. And then she sensed Chewie on a star destroyer... so just poor writing. But I can see over it because nothing is as bad as tlj.

 

[squirk]

They force grabbed the transporte before Kylo did. And then she sensed Chewie on a star destroyer... so just poor writing. But I can see over it because nothing is as bad as tlj.

I’m not saying it’s a great explanation, but I am betting that’s what they’d say if asked about it.

 

[RodanAZ]

Finn told her Chewie was on the transport, and she was in the middle of a struggle with Kylo... not a great explanation, but there are many other things to gripe about.

Like all those Knights of Ren and Stormtroopers not noticing the ship full of rebels sitting on top of the rocks while they loaded Chewie into the transport...

 

[The Brahma Bull]

Ah the Knights of Ren. What did they actually do more than standing in a circle on a rock and getting killed by Kylo Ren like flies?

 

[Paul Andrew]

I’m not saying it’s a great explanation, but I am betting that’s what they’d say if asked about it.

Feels likely.
To my mind it's not like they ever describe force sensitives as keeping a running checklist of who they can feel at any one time, so between the stress of her tug of war with Kylo and the unexpected lightning she probably just missed that Chewie wasn't on it?

 

[Cameron]

I saw the first Star Wars in the theater when it came out. I just finished watching the final in all it’s 3D IMAX glory.

I will let everyone else debate the good the bad and the ugly.

Star Wars has shaped my life though the years. It quite literally saved my life and drew me out of a deep depression when I was a child. Since then It has encouraged my imagination. It influenced my career choice. It steered me towards a study of philosophy. It brought me many good and true friends. It has helped make me more tolerant of my fellow man and woman. The love of it caused me very directly to become a maker. For all of this and more I am grateful.

 

[Jaitea]

I said this a couple of pages back, & I promise not to say it again,...I don't think we should waste time analysing & trying to make sense of what we saw in the film,.....adjusting our knowledge & trying to fit everything into SW logic

Why did Rey not sense that Chewie wasn't on that ship?.....because JJ & Terio wanted us to think he was dead

The film is full of non sensical events,....where is the secret compartment room in the Emperors Throne Room....when the wall that the secret door is on, the other side is the outside of the throne room....theres even a window beside that doorway where you can see daylight & no room behind it

These films are not like the previous Lucas productions,....they are just movies, just watch them, enjoy them, collect them,....but don't try & analyse them because they can change the rules between & even within the movies

Hopefully things will change & there will be a SW lore that we can build upon

J

 

[Bigdaddy]

The chosen one: a false prophecy perpetuated by the Jedi order, either deliberately to maintain revered power or through their own hubris to feel relevant to the fate of the galaxy.

Balance: a word that George Lucas doesn't seem to know the definition of!

The Force: An energy field created by all living things.

That view point is how I've been able to make the PT work within the context of the story that we get in the OT.
I haven't seen this movie yet but apparently the prophecy was a load of bull according to DSW.
I really hope palps says "do it!" in this!

 

[CT1138]

Also I had posted in another thread several weeks ago a photo of Palpatine shooting lightening into the sky. Turns out that was true and he was able to disable the rebel ships. So why didn’t he use this power during ROTJ?

When Palpatine blew the Force lightning in RoS, he was in the same atmosphere as the fleet above him. In RotJ, Palpatine was in a pressurized space station with the fleet on the other side of Endor in the vacuum of space. I doubt Palpatine is gonna open the airlock just to blast the fleet away when the Death Star itself seemed more than capable of doing just that.

I really, really enjoyed the brief 20 second scene where it shows Luke training Leia in the forest. That’s the movie we should have gotten in the 90’s. So much potential there.

SB

Oh man, loooved that bit!

Detail oriented nitpick: Kylo Ren found a perfect condition OT TIE fighter on the death star wreck, but how did it get to the fight at the end? They have no hyperdrive.

Also, how did he navigate to Exogal without the wayfinder? Rey took his, and supposedly the only way to get to Exogal is with a Sith wayfinder?

So much for needing training to become a force ghost...

To be fair, Anakin likely never received that training either, and he still pops up at the end with Obi-Wan and Yoda.

If Rey could sense Chewie alive up on the star destroyer, why couldn’t she sense that he wasn’t actually on the transport she blew up?

The fact that Force lightning just flew out of her fingertips seemed to be the distraction of the moment.

 

[Joek3rr]

So bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness means what? If by your theory balance means both dark and light, why can’t Anakin as the chosen one bring balance as a Sith?

You could argue that the Jedi misinterpreted what the chosen one is supposed to be as Yoda began to suspect but we see that Anakin really was the one to destroy the Sith and fulfill his destiny. By killing Palpatine and also dying by his hand, he ended the Sith order and the rule of 2 (until that was undone by RoS).

I suppose you could argue that some “dark side” sentiments are needed. The Jedi Order in the prequel trilogy are overly strict and their lack of emotion (or the ability to express it) and their dogma that dark = bad contributed to their undoing and Luke established a more “balanced” order by being more emotional and caring for his friends. But balance doesn’t mean equal parts Jedi and Sith because if that were the case, Qui Gon was an absolute moron for pushing Anakin to be trained.

Let me see if I can illustrate how I'm thinking.

Dark Light
10.9.8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1.0.1.2.3.4.5.6.7.8.9.10
--------------------------------^---------------------------------
If we could plot out the Force in the universe on a scale like this. 0 represents true balance, as described by George, and shown in the Clone Wars. When Obi-Wan tells Anakin that the Force has been left in darkness, I think the scale might be a 9 or 10 the Dark side.

Dark Light
10.9.8.7.6.5.4.3.2.1.0.1.2.3.4.5.6.6.7.8.9.10
--^----------------------------------------------------------------

Or at least that's how I understand it. Because think about this, if balance in the Force is the elimination of the Dark Side. Why aren't the Jedi concerned with eliminating other Dark Side religions? Like the Night Sisters on Dathomir.


EDIT: My little arrows just don't want to line up on the right numbers

 

[tcsmit29]

Detail oriented nitpick: Kylo Ren found a perfect condition OT TIE fighter on the death star wreck, but how did it get to the fight at the end? They have no hyperdrive.

Lmao!!! Yes!! I didn’t think of that!

Please, let me explain. This particular TIE was XTHD1138, an experimental model equipped with a hyperdrive. You guys would know this if you read issue #42 of Star Wars comics. Also, it was explicitly stated on page 318 of the Return of the Jedi novelization that this TIE was delivered to DeathStar 2 so that Papatine could use it to take his hot secretary on a date. You know Paps was always a horny old goat.