Yeah, I figured as much. Mind dropping some into on that Podcast? I'd love to give it a listen.
Star Trek: TMP Director’s Cut 4K
- Thread starter Captain Dunsel
- Start date
Yeah, I figured as much. Mind dropping some into on that Podcast? I'd love to give it a listen.
Sold.
thedigitalbits.com
It’s official: The Star Trek: TMP – Director’s Edition, Star Trek V, Star Trek VI & a Six-Movie Collection are coming to 4K Ultra HD on 9/6!
Fully Restored Director’s Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture Arrives on 4K Ultra HD and in Six-Movie Collection Own the Definitive Vision of Director Robert Wise September 6, 2022 with Extensive New Bonus Content Original Six Big-Screen Adventures Also Arrive on 4K Ultra HD September 6 in...
Yeah, I just finishing buying all five on Blu-Ray.
What are you going to do? Paramount wants to milk that cow dry.
asalaw
Sr Member
Hard pass. Keeping my existing 4K HDR theatrical cut.Sold.
It’s official: The Star Trek: TMP – Director’s Edition, Star Trek V, Star Trek VI & a Six-Movie Collection are coming to 4K Ultra HD on 9/6!
Fully Restored Director’s Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture Arrives on 4K Ultra HD and in Six-Movie Collection Own the Definitive Vision of Director Robert Wise September 6, 2022 with Extensive New Bonus Content Original Six Big-Screen Adventures Also Arrive on 4K Ultra HD September 6 in...
With the notable exception of Bladerunner, “Directors’ cuts” are usually really bad. The vast majority of the time, the tightening that takes place in a theatrical edit makes for a leaner, more linear narrative. Dropping back in scenes that were wisely cut out to begin with almost never helps a film. It almost always weakens the story.
If you want to see an extreme example of the damage a director can do, check out Apocalypse Now Redux on Netflix. Coppola self-indulgently ruined his own masterpiece by reinserting huge swaths of footage that should have been burned. The theatrical cut is focused and intense and brutal; Redux is a meandering hot mess.
Yes, more often than not, director’s cuts detract from a film. There are exceptions, of course. And I think this is one of them.
In this particular case, TMP was such a rushed and troubled production that what ended up in theaters was essentially a rough cut, and one partly dictated by the need for a specific runtime, and because effects shots were being dropped in at the last minute, untrimmed. When you go back and watch the theatrical cut with all of this in mind, you can really see how Jerry Goldsmith’s amazing score was used as the glue to hold this rough edit together and make it reasonably-presentable as a theatrical release.
The 1983 television cut/Special Longer Version added back in a lot of footage (much of it unnecessary, and even unfinished, effects-wise), but people generally regarded it as an improvement over the theatrical cut, since it restored some important character scenes and moments missing from the rather utilitarian theatrical cut. More warmth, more humor, more exploration of the characters and the themes.
I have to say that, watching this new Director’s Edition in the theater, recently, it really did feel like watching a finished and properly-satisfying version of the movie for the first time. The movie’s inherent flaws are still there, but the DE edit is still the best version of the film there’s ever been, since it removes unnecessary moments, adds back in important moments, and generally improves the pace and flow. I have a few minor quibbles, but it takes the best of the two previous edits and finds a happy middleground.
It still boggles my mind that the scene where Spock sheds a tear for V’Ger—a key scene which clarifies and completes Spock’s character arc and underlines the core thematic idea of the film—was removed for the 1979 theatrical cut. Nimoy was rightly ticked off, at the time.
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asalaw
Sr Member
• The sparkly new titles are hilariously tacky and look ridiculous. What’s next, rhinestone lettering on Spock’s Vulcan robe? Fuzzy dice over the main viewscreen? Maybe a little plastic ***** on Sulu’s console?
• The sound mix is overwrought—not every single blinkie needs a bell and whistle. Particularly in the Klingon bridge scene, the deluge of new sound effects is an intrusive distraction from the unfolding mystery. Less… is… more.
• The computer voice has been excised, which was a lousy choice. Especially during the red alert scene, it added menace and heightened the drama. They even cut the computer narrative in the Epsilon 9 scene—what the hell did that accomplish?
• Ilia magically healing Chekov’s shoulder adds absolutely ****-all to her character or the plot, and is a setup with no payoff—ironically flouting the principle of Chekhov’s gun. Probably why it was cut in the first place.
• Spock’s tear is indeed interesting, but it’s redundant after the sickbay scene. Besides, his speech about V’Ger being a child accomplishes the same thing—putting a bow on Spock’s arc—while also advancing our understanding of the antagonist and suggesting a strategy to the hero. I’m fine with the cut because it tightens up the third act without hurting the story.
On balance, the new cut throws the baby out with the bath water. No thanks, I’ll keep my theatrical cut.
I certainly agree with some of these points.
Not a fan of the new main titles. Parts of the sound mix don’t work for me— but it’s an improvement over the 2001 version. I was never a fan of the computer voice, but I agree that excising it completely may have been going too far. I get why Wise wanted the scene where Ilia relives Chekov of his pain back in the movie—it underscores her compassion and empathy, which is exactly what V’Ger lacks. And I personally prefer the Spock crying scene to remain in, because it underscores the fact that, while V’Ger clearly lacks emotion and is unfulfilled, Spock himself now realizes that HE also needs to integrate his two halves in order to be fulfilled, which is an idea that isn’t really made clear in the sickbay scene. The sickbay scene really only established that Spock has realized that V’Ger is cold and empty. And, while we can infer that Spock also feels this way, I think the tear scene is his actual moment of epiphany.
Different strokes, of course.
For me, the theatrical cut is the canonical version and the version of historical record, but I find the DE to be a smoother and more satisfying viewing experience. Mileage may vary, void where prohibited. I would never want it to REPLACE the original cut. Same with STAR WARS or BLADE RUNNER or anything else. Just have all of the versions available, and allow them to speak for themselves. They all have their pros and cons, and are all pieces of the bigger puzzle for us to chew on and discuss.
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asalaw
Sr Member
You’re forgetting that Spock laughs in the sickbay scene, and says, “I should’ve known.” That’s regret talking, regret over having chosen the path of Kolinahr. He also grasps Kirk’s hand and refers to “this simple feeling,” and he’s incredulous that it’s “beyond V’Ger’s comprehension.” He’s not only talking about V’Ger there—in fact, his observations about V’Ger are meaningless without the self-knowledge that he’s obviously gained from the mind meld. The resolution of Spock’s emotional arc is there, but in subtext—and that’s much stronger than having him cry on the bridge. And it renders the crying redundant.
And there’s already plenty of contrast between Ilia and V’Ger without the magic healing. If anything, it’s an ambiguous way of showing compassion, because it’s couched in the context of a magical healing power that never comes up again in the story. If she’d just been holding his hand to comfort him till Chapel arrived, that would have been unambiguously compassionate and you’d have a point. It just doesn’t work the way they played it. Leaving it out was the right choice the first time around.
NakedMoleRat
Master Member
It was still boring.
Perhaps. Again, it’s still fun to discuss. And certainly moreso than NuTREK. I agree that the arc still works with just the Sickbay scene, but I like that extra moment of reflection on Spock’s part, as well as Kirk and McCoy’s reactions to it. Mileage may vary. I’m glad we’ll soon have high-quality versions of all three cuts to enjoy as we like.
It should be noted that she’s not actually healing him, but rather telepathically blocking his pain while Chapel works on him. I think it adds some extra layers to the fact that V’Ger—by accident or by design—abducted and then replicated the most empathic and sensual person on the Bridge. As with the Spock scene, the film still works without it, but I like that extra dash of flavor.
Indeed, most of the added moments in the DE are about clarifying and focusing on story and character beats. Even little things, like the new moment of the tiny Enterprise turning around after flying over V’Ger, and the shot of the V’Ger cloud dissipating as it enters Earth orbit, help to clarify story points which were far more unclear in the theatrical cut. As a kid, I never quite got a proper sense of what V’Ger looked like, nor the geography of the Enterprise’s flight over—and entry into—V’Ger.
On the flipside, I miss Kirk’s second “Viewer off!” on the Rec Deck, and I still prefer the original red alert klaxon, among other nitpicks. The reality is that there’s no perfect version of this movie, and there never will be. I like all three cuts for different reasons. The theatrical cut is the “real” movie, the SLV is an interesting look at the grace notes which were trimmed, and the DE is perhaps the version most focused on story and characters, in a less utilitarian way that the theatrical cut.
Anyway, as noted, each version has its pros and cons. While the theatrical cut did (and still does) the job it needed to do, there are a lot of clunky edits, including redundant dialogue clearly intended as a backup in case the effect shots didn’t come in on time (“Phew! We’re out of it!”, “The new screens held!”, etc.), or to explain things which didn’t need explaining (“A machine planet, sending a machine to Earth, looking for its creator. That’s absolutely…incredible!”).
I suppose one could argue that there’s a bit of chicken/egg or perhaps BLADE RUNNER syndrome at work, here: Does the Director’s Edition come off better than it otherwise might, since we’ve already seen the theatrical and 1983 cuts, and therefore already know the story inside and out? Much in the same way that the Final Cut of BLADE RUNNER might not work so well if you haven’t already seen the theatrical cut and its expository Deckard narration? How would these director’s cuts play to a first-time viewer who hadn’t seen the earlier versions?
Food for thought!
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asalaw
Sr Member
Healing or anesthetizing, the distinction doesn’t make much of a difference. And your pointing that out only underscores the ambiguity of that particular bit of business—again, I think cutting it was the right choice. It just didn’t work as intended the way they played it.
The second “viewer off” command did underscore Uhura’s (and everyone else’s) shock, and should have been left in, absolutely. I can’t think of a single editorial decision they made in this edition that I agree with. The only thing I like about it is the high-res rescan of Trumbull’s 65mm VFX shots. They look fabulous in 4K. But that’s cold comfort considering the vandalism of the rest of the cut.
I don’t think the chicken-egg thing is as hard to answer about TMP as it would be about Bladerunner—I had just graduated high school when it was released, and I didn’t really understand the film with the narration at the time. It’s only in retrospect, with the ability to compare Ridley Scott’s subsequent cuts with Alan Ladd Jr.’s hamfisted “improvements,” that I can objectively say the recuts are better. But don’t forget Ladd had years of great films behind him, and he was responsible for bringing George Lucas and his little space movie to Fox. Can’t blame him for trusting his own judgment, even if in hindsight he damaged Bladerunner.
He also hurt (in my opinion) a film I worked on years later. It was originally titled Little Havana and was a love triangle story set in the Miami Cuban exile community. Unfortunately, Robert Redford was making Havana at the time, and Ladd was afraid of confusion, so he ordered a title change. The producers first came up with Distant Shores, and then it was released as Fires Within, but neither of those titles said a damn thing about the story and I thought they were both terrible, even then. Damn shame.
In the case of Bladerunner, all we can do is speculate about it 40 years later. But in the test-of-time department, the recuts have obviously held up much better than the theatrical cut did, and deservedly so. But in fairness, by the mid-Eighties, the film as released was already a cult favorite and highly regarded, and was selling very well on home video. I remember working on a Canadian TV spot, and the producer had me bring my VHS copy to the hotel so we could all watch it—he was nuts about it. We all were. Even hobbled and in pan-and-scan, it was still great.
What Trek: TMP still needs is a good musical number.
I hope in the next Director’s Edition we get a group of Rigellians singing gibberish in the San Francisco tram station.
Something like this stroke of genius…
I also think it would be totally awesome if they replaced references to the Enterprise and used CGI to redesign the Enterprise altogether and call it Discovery II.
Oh yeah, and they should insert a scene where Admiral Kirk asks Admiral Nogura for command of the Discovery II and receives a response similar to this from the admiral…
I hope in the next Director’s Edition we get a group of Rigellians singing gibberish in the San Francisco tram station.
Something like this stroke of genius…
I also think it would be totally awesome if they replaced references to the Enterprise and used CGI to redesign the Enterprise altogether and call it Discovery II.
Oh yeah, and they should insert a scene where Admiral Kirk asks Admiral Nogura for command of the Discovery II and receives a response similar to this from the admiral…
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Yeah, some director’s cuts are just done as an empty and cheap marketing ploy, while others are legitimate cases where directors and their visions got screwed over due to time/hardships/executive meddling.
I first saw BLADE RUNNER in high school, during the late 90s, when it was fully undergoing its rediscovery as a beloved cult film. Knowing that we’d be watching the 1991 Director’s Cut in class, the next day, I actually went and rented the VHS of the theatrical cut (well, the 1982 International Cut, to be precise) so I could watch that, first, and then have a basis for comparison. The next day, after we watched the 1991 cut, I was explaining the differences to my classmates. And, of course, that one-two punch of seeing both cuts within 24 hours (my first viewings of the film, ever) made me fall in love with the film.
I should also note that I missed the theatrical screenings of the Final Cut, back in 2007, and had been kicking myself for 14 years until I finally got to see it (a projection of the 4K Blu-Ray) in a theater, last summer. And it was an amazing experience. Stunningly beautiful.
In the case of TMP, I came to know the SLV best, having grown up with it on VHS. Aside from one TV airing, it really wasn’t until the 2009 Blu-Ray that I became particularly familiar with the 1979 cut.
At the end of the day, the film—in all of its iterations—has most definitely grown on me, over the years. But it’s still highly flawed and compromised. Some things it gets incredibly right, and others incredibly wrong. Yes, it’s a knockoff of “The Changeling”. Yes, it’s a 90-minute TV pilot script that got hastily reworked into a two-hour theatrical feature. Yes, it’s boring. Yes, the characters are off-puttingly out-of-character (which is partly the point of the story, I suppose, but it doesn’t exactly make for the most satisfying watch as a fan of TOS). Yes, it takes itself a bit too seriously.
Yet, it also has that throughline of thoughtful, intelligent, optimistic science-fiction that is at the very core of STAR TREK. And, more importantly, it was an honest attempt to bring STAR TREK back in a big, serious, and respectful way, without reinventing the wheel or tearing down the characters just to replace them with younger knockoffs. The film ends with everyone back in their happy place, and the Enterprise ready for a new adventure, which is just how it should be. Whatever version appeals most to a particular viewer, that is the consistent element.
Compared to today’s glut of awful, dumb, and disrespectful reboots and remakes, TMP is a masterpiece, and we never knew how lucky we had it. As with many people, THE WRATH OF KHAN is still my favorite, and the best TREK film overall, but TMP gets unfairly maligned, I think. It actually seems to slowly be undergoing a sort of BLADE RUNNER-esque reappraisal, which is nice to see.
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…it’s golden moments like this which make us love you, ALLEY. Never stop doing your thing!
asalaw
Sr Member
I first saw TMP in its original theatrical release, on any number of screens, any number of times. I was disappointed at the time with the length of the V’Ger approach sequences, and I fell asleep more than once. I was frustrated by the pipe stand visible when the Enterprise leaves dry dock, the heavy matte lines around the Klingon ships, the jittery split screen compositing in the bridge probe scene, and the lack of anything visible out the rec deck windows during the Decker/Ilia scene.
But by then I’d read about the production problems (probably in Starlog), and I was pretty forgiving. I’m sure I saw the theatrical cut at least 10 or 15 times in theaters before it ever hit VHS. TMP was a huge event in fandom at the time, and I was already in the habit of watching films exhaustively in theaters. I’d pay the early matinee price and just stay through every showing. My mother dragged me out of Superman once after 11 PM, but that’s another story.
I love all the TOS films now, except for STV, but even that one has its moments. The scene where McCoy has to unplug his father is wrenching to watch. Kirk angrily refusing to be relieved of his pain is fantastic. The whole Sybok plot, not so much. Nor Scotty banging his head, nor Uhura’s cringe-inducing fan dance, nor…
But by then I’d read about the production problems (probably in Starlog), and I was pretty forgiving. I’m sure I saw the theatrical cut at least 10 or 15 times in theaters before it ever hit VHS. TMP was a huge event in fandom at the time, and I was already in the habit of watching films exhaustively in theaters. I’d pay the early matinee price and just stay through every showing. My mother dragged me out of Superman once after 11 PM, but that’s another story.
I love all the TOS films now, except for STV, but even that one has its moments. The scene where McCoy has to unplug his father is wrenching to watch. Kirk angrily refusing to be relieved of his pain is fantastic. The whole Sybok plot, not so much. Nor Scotty banging his head, nor Uhura’s cringe-inducing fan dance, nor…
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