Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Pre-release)

Pretty much. Anyone who loves Rey is, I'd wager, under 25. I doubt you'll find many people who grew up with the OT in theaters who like Rey at all.

I’m 42. I make my living writing, directing and editing for the industry. I’ve seen the OT as many times as those who’ve watched it the most in this forum... my obsessively watching those flicks is why I do well at my job.

I love Rey.

And Kylo is my favourite character in the entire saga.

The only thing my best friend, Jenn, (lead animator for Game of Thrones dragons) age 38, likes about Star Wars IS Rey.

The film nerd guy I started my company with (age 44) just bought a Rey maquette for $500.

My brother, age 40, wanted a lightsaber for Christmas, I asked which version, he chose Rey’s (there’s a thread with pics of it and it’s box on my thread if you don’t buy it)

My clueless on Star Wars father, when leaving Rogue One asked “where was the other girl? This girl sucked”

People like Rey... sorry.
 
So if they retcon, will we see Joek3rr actually hold a negative opinion about some aspect of Star Wars?

It would irk me, that's for sure. But I'd get over it, and when it's all said and done I still love it.

I just finished watching TPM again. It's not a good film. But I still love it. So if Ep 9 did some major retconning it would probably drop down to the prequels.
 
They're businessmen/women/etc. What puts more butts in the seats and money in their wallet?

(Hint, it's not keeping the TLJ fans happy).

I don't deny there are those who like TLJ, and more power to them, however they're just a much smaller percentage than those who don't.

I'm curious, if you don't think they care about the fans, what is it they care about? it's not the story, they didn't care enough to craft it out ahead of time, or give enough time between for them to properly do the work. They let rian trash luke, so they don't care about the history or the existing fans. There's only one thing left, money.

Who's going to put more money in their wallets? Those who grew up with the OT and now have the most disposal income? The PT fans who are now getting into the workforce/been in a few year? Or the ST aimed at today teens/tweens?

My nephews flat out love marvel. They still haven't seen captain Marvel, but they could quote you lines and tell you the entire story inside of 24 hours of its release. They're not really into star wars at any level (which i blame my sister for :) ). Marvel's theory isn't anything hard to figure out. Stay true to the story(ies) that people love and made them what they are, stick to the master plan, and worry about making a good movie. Follow the plan and the money will come.. I can't say any of that went into the ST sadly. Follow the plan and the money will come.

You can't quote ST figures either to say the money is coming because it was in the bank before the damage was done. I also can't sit here and tell you that Solo tanked solely because of TLJ. However, i'd bet the house that if the exact same flick came out 6-12 months after TFA, it would have done a decent amount better. Better of enough to be considered a success? I don't know, but better. More surprising was due to the perceived failure of one flick, they killed all the other stand alones that were in progress. Due to one flick that did turn a small profit, just not a giant one? That tells me they heard the comments from TLJ, and not the ones from morons attacking people/actors/etc.

What will they do about it? Well, we've got 8 months to wait before we find out. I guarantee you before starting 9 they found themselves in a position they never imagined possible, that being in the position of making a star wars trilogy that, probably won't kill, but does severely damage the property. That 4B price tag wasn't just for the rights to the material (well, legally speaking it was), but they paid that much because of the built in fan base. TFA was virtually a guaranteed money printing machine. Some didn't like it as much, but no one flat out hated it. No one was leaving the series in the dust over it. Everyone was still anxious/interested for 8. You can't say the same thing after 8. Regardless how anyone feels about it (like or dislike) there is no argument that it did damage the brand.

Another thing i'd bet the house one, they won't double down on TLJ.

You know what's the best way to make both happy? Just move on, don't retcon the last film. Just move on. For better or worse, TLJ is episode 8. When George turned out a stinker of a film, he didn't retcon it to make fans happy. And when he made a even bigger stinker, again he just moved foward, retconning, no back tracking.
 
IIRC that was done because they feared that Luke would take up too much space, leading to Rey not being able to shine. But IMO totally unnecessary. Luke could have been the mentor from the get go, no need for that nonsensical hide and seek game. It would have IMO been a TRUE reinterpretation of ANH, and nobody would have complained... *waiting*

That was Michael Arndt. Apparently, he felt after writing a couple of versions that Luke took over the story. This why JJ and Lawrence had to come in re-write the film. They shifted the timeline back, so Luke appears right at the end.
 
I had whiskey. Does that count? lol

1wpugy.jpg
 
The only thing my best friend, Jenn, (lead animator for Game of Thrones dragons) age 38, likes about Star Wars IS Rey.

Off topic but please pass on my utmost appreciation for Jenn. Watching season seven GOT this afternoon I told my wife - "The dragons here are just as great as SMAUG."

My wife and I are both over 50 and we like Rey as well. It's a MOVIE it doesn't need to make sense in our world.
 
I just turned 31 so the first SW film I saw in theater was TPM, not my first contact with SW but never had I been so thriled after seeing a movie in my life until that point (I later saw the OT...:D), so yeah I'm a prequels kid (not that I like the PT so much mind you) and I have to say I'm not such a fan of Rey but I have absolutelly no problem with the character and I think it's one of the things done right in this ST, plus I do like Ridley, she's a fine actress.

I can agree with many of the points you bring up, but saying nobody likes the ST and it's a flop is not acknowledging the franchise has already made more money than it costed to buy from George (TFA 3rd best grossing film of all time $2billion, TLJ 11th $1,3billion, RO 29th $1billion...) not counting merchandise (increasing $1,5 billion a year), series, parks... and what's to come. Even by the infamous rotten tomatoes poll's standarts (only 44% like it) it's a bit of a stretch to say nobody likes it, and we might not know people who do IRL but there's more people coming to SW thanks to the ST, particularly women, younger people and other countries (apparently SW is slowly getting an audience in China for example, and they don't vote on rotten tomatoes:lol:). I just bring this up because I read time and again all over the internet that the ST ruined the franchise, and we might think that way but I'ld say that at least by Disney's execs standarts, they sure must believe they're doing a pretty good job. And they actually might not be so far from the truth in some aspects, just take the Mandalorian for example!...

But anyway, back on track, I see they're treading lightly with Episode 9, or rather treading heavily on fan service, but I think it's just a way to appease the more hardcore fans and reconcile them with the franchise so they go to the theaters come december, I don't think they will retcon TLJ at all, but just move forward. After all, except some deaths :rolleyes: it hasn't changed so much to the plot. JJ has an almost blank slate.
 
Its kind of a disappointment to come to this thread and read all this flaming again.

I was absolutely blown away by the bootlegged footage of "The Mandalorian". I hoped it would be good, but when I saw just how much attention had been paid to the OT and the concept overall I felt elated. This is what we wanted so badly !!!!!!

This will be a series that absolutely takes into account the wishes of fans of the OT and perhaps the prequels. Thats way more than we would have got from a single film. I thought more people would be talking about it but no instead there's all this about Episode IX .

I thought the IX teaser trailer looked alot better than I'd hoped. It has the potential to "set things right" and I'm willing to wait to see if it goes someway to doing that before ripping it to pieces. After then ,well its fair game.

I readily admit I have no love for TLJ simply because its so poorly written and thought out. I feel it exaggerates everything on almost a cartoon like scale, from the characters daft behaviours and weird decisions, to inexplicable sudden force powers , stupid jokes , and a myriad of things that run against what I regard and enjoy the most about SW.

Other people can like it for what it is, I don't ,but then there are loads of films I dislike and never will that others just love to bits. Its a personal choice ,thats actually what makes movies and stories interesting, at least to me.

I doubt very much that Disney and Lucasfilm ever intended in anyway to upset as many SW fans as they did with TLJ. Who in an entertainment industry , whose income absolutely depends on people to like and to pay to see their product ,wants to deliberately produce something that they instead hate, threaten to ignore and openly despise for destroying their love of the franchise?

There is no doubt Disney/Lucasfilm have rethought their approach to how the franchise will move on. The fact that they have said this will wrap up the Skywalker story and then take a break shows just how much awareness they have of the problem.

But lets face it GL had exactly the same issue with the Prequels, if the internet and social media had existed in the form that it does today I believe the next two films would have radically been changed to take into account the immediate burning hatred that inflamed so many fans for TPM.

It certainly seems that with "The Mandalorian" we finally have people like Jon F and Dave F and alot of other directors in charge that loved SW for the very same reasons many of us really did ,and, if its successful, will then get to make even more of its like. Maybe they will be able to drive the evolution of SW forward like Kevin Fergie did and does with Marvel.

The development of the new trilogy by the GOT team fills me with hope, PARTICULARLY after seeing the Mando content and maybe the R1 series will be as good as well. The other trilogy, well, lets not even go there.

Star Wars is going to move on, don't ever doubt it, whether we like it or hate it. Disney has invested billions in this, and they want Lucasfilm to deliver the kind of movies and series that appeal to all of us ,the old and new fans. I hope we can all agree to meet on some middle ground so the threads are less filled with these constant caustic discussions. It sucks all the life out of them.

Against all my expectations prior to this weekend I think we've been shown that the powers to be are trying like heck to do that and we need to move on and try to rediscover some love for the franchise again.

I sure as hell did when I saw the Mando footage, I'm still buzzing from it. TROS looked like they were trying to get it right one way or another.

Cannot we try in these threads to do the same?
 
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Pretty much. Anyone who loves Rey is, I'd wager, under 25. I doubt you'll find many people who grew up with the OT in theaters who like Rey at all.


46 year old husband, father, OG fan since 1977, Rebel Alliance tattoo-sportin' lightsaber collectin', still have all my old toys and action figures, SW book readin', LAST JEDI lovin' fan...and I love Rey.

So there. Nanner nanner. :)
 
I personally felt TLJ sucked, and thought that the unexplained ease/speed with which Rey developed her Force abilities—in the absence of any significant character flaws—made Rey the very definition of the "under-developed/over-idealized" character trope known as a Mary Sue. Instead of those who like the ST continuing to deny this, I think the real argument by them should be "So what if she is? She's still a likable character and I like the story they've written for her." I think a Mary Sue is exactly what Disney intended for her to be, since Mary Sues can still be quite likable characters IF their idealized nature isn't overly-emphasized by way of having an exaggerated bubbly personality or delivering an excessive amount of self-righteous/condescending dialog aimed at other characters.

The decision could have been made to imbue Rey's character with flaws. Think of the opening scene in Rogue One where the informant was shot by a supposed "good guy." Talk about taking a character into a grey area... Does anyone think the writers of the ST would have been allowed by Disney to have Rey do something like this in one of the saga movies? No, Disney seems to have made a conscious decision not to have the chief protagonist of its ST be a complex mix of good/bad traits, or have to work/wait years to acquire Force abilities as did Luke. A decision was made to veer towards over-idealizing the first female character, knowing she would be a hero to millions of girls who had never seen a female as the chief protagonist in SW. And if someone just can't accept that Rey is a Mary Sue, maybe they can at least accept that she is "over-idealized."

This decision makes for a less realistic/complex story, and by comparison makes Luke seem less of a person and less of a Jedi considering his years-long efforts to work through his flaws and develop Force abilities. But I don't think Disney meant to disparage Luke's character by over-idealizing Rey. I think they just didn't consider the retroactive effect these character choices for Rey would have on Luke.

I'm actually glad some folks like the ST. Just because its flaws jumped out at me, and because it essentially ruined the characters of the OT for me, I have no desire for my misery to have the company of everyone else. I don't understand the glowing acceptance of some for the content and direction of the ST story, but I'm not dense enough to think name-calling and sarcasm will change their mind, and I really don't get how some who like the ST and TLJ in particular think that these things will change our minds either.
 
I’m 42. I make my living writing, directing and editing for the industry. I’ve seen the OT as many times as those who’ve watched it the most in this forum... my obsessively watching those flicks is why I do well at my job.

I love Rey.

And Kylo is my favourite character in the entire saga.

The only thing my best friend, Jenn, (lead animator for Game of Thrones dragons) age 38, likes about Star Wars IS Rey.

The film nerd guy I started my company with (age 44) just bought a Rey maquette for $500.

My brother, age 40, wanted a lightsaber for Christmas, I asked which version, he chose Rey’s (there’s a thread with pics of it and it’s box on my thread if you don’t buy it)

My clueless on Star Wars father, when leaving Rogue One asked “where was the other girl? This girl sucked”

People like Rey... sorry.

A little older than you, LOVE the OT, and right off, thought Rey is a great character. I wish they'd had spent MORE time on her exploration self and what she is becoming. And hope she still makes her own lightsaber.

I'm not with you on Kylo. I found him too big a baby. Though when I take into account that he is related to Anakin, it is fitting. His character bores me, but I hope it changes... Hell, I do have a Kylo Ren t-shirt lol
 
46 year old husband, father, OG fan since 1977, Rebel Alliance tattoo-sportin' lightsaber collectin', still have all my old toys and action figures, SW book readin', LAST JEDI lovin' fan...and I love Rey.

So there. Nanner nanner. :)

Dude... Watch you're language!!!

There are younger people here!






They have no idea what the hell nanner nanner is.
 
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