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department of the army cert just needs a sig
department of the army cert just needs a sig
Kurtz Dossier
- Thread starter asavage
- Start date
dunno if you've already done this but here's a marriage license I knocked together. It's a little dpi heavy.
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View attachment 67124
cayman shen
Master Member
Can't believe I'm just seeing this! Apocalypse Now is squarely in my top five favorite movies of all time...can't wait to see more.
Bill Carson
New Member
Great topic, for a great movie prop. Amazing work !
Mr Webber
Master Member
Have put the HD grabs from the original together for easier reference. If its okay with Adam, heres the link.
http://www.therpf.com/f40/kurtz-dossier-hd-grabs-133616/#post2025937
http://www.therpf.com/f40/kurtz-dossier-hd-grabs-133616/#post2025937
Mr Webber
Master Member
Going to try and cover any gaps i can tackle with this most holy of props a stage at a time. Stage one is the Time magazine section. Found a great cover shot and also came across a copy of the original picture used in the article.
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Mr Webber
Master Member
Mr Webber
Master Member
Mr Webber
Master Member
Managed to find one more hero pic before looking at so many depressing pictures started to get to me, the horror. Have to watch some old Three Stooges vids for a while to get back on track.......
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Mr Webber
Master Member
The hero pics have dried up for the minute but along the way gathered up some good filler pics that are all historicaly accurate.
WARNING SOME PICS ARE GRAPHIC.
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If any wordsmiths out there can add the little strips of information that are similar to the ones seen in the hero pics, location, date etc it would go a tremendous way to getting this prop into the light. Accuracy not essential, im just not that creative.
WARNING SOME PICS ARE GRAPHIC.
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If any wordsmiths out there can add the little strips of information that are similar to the ones seen in the hero pics, location, date etc it would go a tremendous way to getting this prop into the light. Accuracy not essential, im just not that creative.
Webber, you're a magician. Just incredible. I can't believe you actually found the original art!
UPDATE:
I was able to visit with the real Dossier courtesy of a connection with the lovely folks from Zoetrope. I drove to Geyserville, CA yesterday and got some great info.
Bad news: their "dossier" is missing a lot of stuff (likely spread all over their archives, but not in the actual "dossier" box.
Good news: many of my assumptions were right on the nose. Suffice to say I was on hold until I could see it, and now that I have I'm back in obsession mode. I'll post some of my new thoughts on the folder's structure etc later on today.
My previous posts about structure were sort of all over the map, but now I'm breaking it down folder by folder. Ivory 1-4 and a Kurtz Walter E. folder. plus some assorted photo packets and envelopes. Again, I'll get more detailed over the next few days.
UPDATE:
I was able to visit with the real Dossier courtesy of a connection with the lovely folks from Zoetrope. I drove to Geyserville, CA yesterday and got some great info.
Bad news: their "dossier" is missing a lot of stuff (likely spread all over their archives, but not in the actual "dossier" box.
Good news: many of my assumptions were right on the nose. Suffice to say I was on hold until I could see it, and now that I have I'm back in obsession mode. I'll post some of my new thoughts on the folder's structure etc later on today.
My previous posts about structure were sort of all over the map, but now I'm breaking it down folder by folder. Ivory 1-4 and a Kurtz Walter E. folder. plus some assorted photo packets and envelopes. Again, I'll get more detailed over the next few days.
Mr Webber
Master Member
Thanks Adam, its now become my obsession as well. Ive exhausted both the internet and my eyes but when i get a chance will hit the library and search all the Time - Life picture books old school style.
Congrats on visiting with the original, have to ask, was there a little giddyness at the start?:love
Congrats on visiting with the original, have to ask, was there a little giddyness at the start?:love
I was not able to take pictures, but I have careful notes about lettering on the files, some form reference etc. Like I said there's very little of the original dossier left.
Here's where I stand now in my thinking about the folders and their contents. For ease of conversation, I've included a list of what's in each folder, removed the terrible original numbering system, and cleaned things up a bit.
There are 5 folders in the master envelope. Ivory 1 through 4, and then a Walter E. Kurtz folder.
In addition, there's a sealed Orders envelope (presumably with his official mission statement from the meeting- instructions on the envelope say to destroy it).
Also there's a Military Records jacket (I'd assume that this covers Ivory 3 folder).
Then there are the photo packets. These are the vinyl envelopes with War Dept. Gold stamp on the back. By my count there are 5 of these in the dossier. There are some loose photos, loose groups of newspaper articles (bound by paperclips) and likely some other ephemera that I couldn't think of.
Here's the list:
Official list of seen items in Kurtz dossier
Master Envelope.
Side opening manilla, 9”x12”. With tape, red marker zig zagged over the tape to prevent tampering, and a string closure and a red wax seal. Wax seal has a military type bird (eagle?) in the center and is large (perhaps over 1” dia.) Has text printed on envelope on two opposite corners on the front and a white label in the middle. Presumably addressed to Capt. Willard in Da Nang.
*items below with an asterisk are seen in the film. Other items are not, but assumed to be in such a file.
Each of the five folders has a 2-prong paper holder mounted into each side (so they're holding papers on both sides of the folder).
Ivory I: Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory I” is stuck to tab in red 1/2" DYNO lettering. Is Kurtz' early history. From birth, through high school, to West Point to just before his Green Beret training. Pictures (inside photo packet) include mom, him as a young lad, Kurtz as Cadet, Kurtz taking oath. His Harvard Thesis is here. There may be a small sheaf of newspaper articles in here.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
*Picture of Kurtz mom Can't fix screengrab, find something similar.
*Picture of young kurtz
Picture of Kurtz house in Asheville
Kurtz' Marriage License
Birth Certificate Kurrtz 1927
West point Acceptance joined the Class of 1946 at West Point on 1 July 1943.
*Picture Kurtz oath west point
Promotion to 1st Lieutenant Between 1947-49 [copy paper]
West Point Transcript
PICTURE yearbook page from West Point
Harvard Diploma 1949/50
Thesis from harvard 1950 [copy paper]
Harvard transcript 1949/50 [copy paper]
Marriage certificate (Janet Anderson, 14 June 1951.) [pinker paper]
*Picture Kurtz Wedding (not visible in film but produced for dossier and sold at auction)
*Picture color: Young Kurtz (possibly Kurtz' son) (school picture)
*Picture Cadet Kurtz (from west point presumably)
Promotion to Major Between 1950- [copy paper]
Promotion to Captain Seoul, 1951 [copy paper]
Ivory II Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory II” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Is Kurtz accolades from being in the military. Letters of appreciation, Letters of commendation. Promotions, diplomas, medals, certificates of achievement are all in here. Newspaper articles about his achievements are in here. The list of medals is impressive. Several letters attesting to his bravery are here. Photostats of his medal certificates are here too.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988) \
Kurtz being decorated by Lyndon Johnson
*Kurtz CV
Picture of Kurtz being decorated by Westmoreland (promotion to Captain?)
*Article“Officer Passes Jump School at 38” (held to other articles by regular paper clip) (approx 1965)
*Picture Parachute jumping (goes with Jump School article above)
*Kurtz Letter “you have known me for 18 years” [onion skin]
*Kurtz' rejection from special forces (request for transfer- denied )
*Kurtz' rejection from special forces (request for transfer- denied )
*Kurtz acceptance to special forces. (request for transfer accepted)
*Letter to Kurtz from “Willie” Exhorting him not to join Special forces.
*Certificate Dod, psy ops training cert. [photostat]
*4 certificates on one sheet, black background (two visible, west point graduation, Defense Intilligences school, other two aren't clear)
Letter of Appreciation For the Cobra Fly By. (half visible, I added 3rd paragraph.) (30 August 1965) [copy paper]
*Letter of Commendation (10 may 1964) [copy paper]
Promotion to 2nd lieutenant [copy paper]
*Letter of commendation
Promotion to Colonel
Ivory III Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory III” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Kurtz actual military history, military transcripts, his orders, plus collected correspondence with his superiors. His Requests for transfer. Suggestions to superiors. Letters among superiors regarding his talents are here.
Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
*Military Transcript with DOD stamp (could be better)
*Letter to Lyndon Johnson from Kurtz (9 March 1964)
*Newsweek interior “Operation Archangel
Operation Archangel letter of intent (or completion)
Operation Archangel Reprimand
*Article cutout “Saigon Post”
*Airborne CERTificate
*Picture Kurtz in Uniform (seen next to original picture of kurtz, with an IDEAL paper clip holding it
*Kurtz Time Magazine Cover (Includes Terryton ad for Cigarettes- Print on glossy thin photo paper)
*Kurtz Rolling Stone Cover (no back, print on Newsprint)
*Letter to “Willie” is in here (the “you have known me” letter).
Ivory IV Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory IV” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Is everything during after Kurtz went insane. It's surveillance photographs, smuggled photos, hearsay, interviews with local Cambodians. It includes Colby's letter to his wife etc. It's all post-river stuff. The vietnamese Ids are in there. So are transcripts of his recordings.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
Article cutout “Green Beret Colonel Under Fire (glued to full paper sheet. Width of 2 columns)
*Colby (crazy)letter to wife
*Picture of Colby
*Kurtz' letter to son [onion skin]
Surveillance photo of kurtz in Sillouhette (along with printed typed key taped to side)
Letter to Willard 'New Development” pick up the other special forces guy Colby
*CIA stationery (seen under above)
CIA report on Kurtz activities
Article packets bound with paper clips at least 3 of these.
*Kurtz' letter to the Journal of SE Asian Affairs
Official condemnation of letter
Termination and recall letter
transcripts of recordings
Kurtz Walter E. Folder Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory I” is stuck to tab in black DYNO lettering.
This is the first folder given to Willard. At the meeting with the general. It's rudimentary stuff. The basic outline of Kurtz and his madness.
Picture of Kurtz 5”x7” (matte)
An intelligence report of some kind
about a dozen pictures of Vietnamese people,
roughly dozen pictures of Vietnamese village,
about two dozen pictures of American soldiers in Vietnam, these were in three piles.
All photosets held by a paperclip.
Two official looking filled-out forms with red stamps- Vietnamese,
Several CIA documents, apparently for look only as the text has nothing to do with Apocalypse events.
Two newspaper clippings with pictures of American troops, text in Vietnamese
3 Vietnamese IDs
*Photo Holders
Photo holder(s) (black vinyl back with clear front. 6”x 9” with chrome snap and gold “War Office” logo stamped on back) (we see at least 4 of these). Photo packets all have “CLASSIFIED” sticker on front flap. Sticker is 4.25” long x 1.17” tall.I think there are the following categories of photos:
Decorations: Kurtz being decorated or at official military functions
Battalions: Various battalions that Kurtz was part of
*CIA covert photos: all with typewritten slivers describing content of photo
*Atrocity Photos: plausibly photos taken from various sources chronicling.
with 5 Vietnamese Ids in it (vinyl 6”x 9” with snap and “War Office” logo on back) IVORY 4
*Montagard photograph
*NVA Regular photograph
*Mai Lai “extended fighting photograph
*Soldier standing with row of rifles with helmets
*Two soldiers standing photograph
Loose Stuff Various things aren't in the above 5 folders or photo holders.
* Map of Vietnam, Cambodia (special us military topo map. On bottom it says “dong sre viet” from 1965. These show up on Ebay from time to time. Loose
11°53′00″N
107°00′00″E
*Photo packet 8x10 with battalion picture on front, held by paper clip. Loose
Held by paper clips. Assorted CIA photos. This means black and white, each with a typewritten and glued on description. Loose
I've got most of Ivory 1 done.
Here's what I need:
What does the letter/form look like when you're promoted? I can't find this online? I'd assume that there'd be a letter with each promotion, saying what qualities led to the promotion right? Wouldn't that be in a military transcript folder?
Here's where I stand now in my thinking about the folders and their contents. For ease of conversation, I've included a list of what's in each folder, removed the terrible original numbering system, and cleaned things up a bit.
There are 5 folders in the master envelope. Ivory 1 through 4, and then a Walter E. Kurtz folder.
In addition, there's a sealed Orders envelope (presumably with his official mission statement from the meeting- instructions on the envelope say to destroy it).
Also there's a Military Records jacket (I'd assume that this covers Ivory 3 folder).
Then there are the photo packets. These are the vinyl envelopes with War Dept. Gold stamp on the back. By my count there are 5 of these in the dossier. There are some loose photos, loose groups of newspaper articles (bound by paperclips) and likely some other ephemera that I couldn't think of.
Here's the list:
Official list of seen items in Kurtz dossier
Master Envelope.
Side opening manilla, 9”x12”. With tape, red marker zig zagged over the tape to prevent tampering, and a string closure and a red wax seal. Wax seal has a military type bird (eagle?) in the center and is large (perhaps over 1” dia.) Has text printed on envelope on two opposite corners on the front and a white label in the middle. Presumably addressed to Capt. Willard in Da Nang.
*items below with an asterisk are seen in the film. Other items are not, but assumed to be in such a file.
Each of the five folders has a 2-prong paper holder mounted into each side (so they're holding papers on both sides of the folder).
Ivory I: Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory I” is stuck to tab in red 1/2" DYNO lettering. Is Kurtz' early history. From birth, through high school, to West Point to just before his Green Beret training. Pictures (inside photo packet) include mom, him as a young lad, Kurtz as Cadet, Kurtz taking oath. His Harvard Thesis is here. There may be a small sheaf of newspaper articles in here.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
*Picture of Kurtz mom Can't fix screengrab, find something similar.
*Picture of young kurtz
Picture of Kurtz house in Asheville
Kurtz' Marriage License
Birth Certificate Kurrtz 1927
West point Acceptance joined the Class of 1946 at West Point on 1 July 1943.
*Picture Kurtz oath west point
Promotion to 1st Lieutenant Between 1947-49 [copy paper]
West Point Transcript
PICTURE yearbook page from West Point
Harvard Diploma 1949/50
Thesis from harvard 1950 [copy paper]
Harvard transcript 1949/50 [copy paper]
Marriage certificate (Janet Anderson, 14 June 1951.) [pinker paper]
*Picture Kurtz Wedding (not visible in film but produced for dossier and sold at auction)
*Picture color: Young Kurtz (possibly Kurtz' son) (school picture)
*Picture Cadet Kurtz (from west point presumably)
Promotion to Major Between 1950- [copy paper]
Promotion to Captain Seoul, 1951 [copy paper]
Ivory II Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory II” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Is Kurtz accolades from being in the military. Letters of appreciation, Letters of commendation. Promotions, diplomas, medals, certificates of achievement are all in here. Newspaper articles about his achievements are in here. The list of medals is impressive. Several letters attesting to his bravery are here. Photostats of his medal certificates are here too.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988) \
Kurtz being decorated by Lyndon Johnson
*Kurtz CV
Picture of Kurtz being decorated by Westmoreland (promotion to Captain?)
*Article“Officer Passes Jump School at 38” (held to other articles by regular paper clip) (approx 1965)
*Picture Parachute jumping (goes with Jump School article above)
*Kurtz Letter “you have known me for 18 years” [onion skin]
*Kurtz' rejection from special forces (request for transfer- denied )
*Kurtz' rejection from special forces (request for transfer- denied )
*Kurtz acceptance to special forces. (request for transfer accepted)
*Letter to Kurtz from “Willie” Exhorting him not to join Special forces.
*Certificate Dod, psy ops training cert. [photostat]
*4 certificates on one sheet, black background (two visible, west point graduation, Defense Intilligences school, other two aren't clear)
Letter of Appreciation For the Cobra Fly By. (half visible, I added 3rd paragraph.) (30 August 1965) [copy paper]
*Letter of Commendation (10 may 1964) [copy paper]
Promotion to 2nd lieutenant [copy paper]
*Letter of commendation
Promotion to Colonel
Ivory III Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory III” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Kurtz actual military history, military transcripts, his orders, plus collected correspondence with his superiors. His Requests for transfer. Suggestions to superiors. Letters among superiors regarding his talents are here.
Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
*Military Transcript with DOD stamp (could be better)
*Letter to Lyndon Johnson from Kurtz (9 March 1964)
*Newsweek interior “Operation Archangel
Operation Archangel letter of intent (or completion)
Operation Archangel Reprimand
*Article cutout “Saigon Post”
*Airborne CERTificate
*Picture Kurtz in Uniform (seen next to original picture of kurtz, with an IDEAL paper clip holding it
*Kurtz Time Magazine Cover (Includes Terryton ad for Cigarettes- Print on glossy thin photo paper)
*Kurtz Rolling Stone Cover (no back, print on Newsprint)
*Letter to “Willie” is in here (the “you have known me” letter).
Ivory IV Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory IV” is stuck to tab in red DYNO lettering.
Is everything during after Kurtz went insane. It's surveillance photographs, smuggled photos, hearsay, interviews with local Cambodians. It includes Colby's letter to his wife etc. It's all post-river stuff. The vietnamese Ids are in there. So are transcripts of his recordings.
*Top Secret Cover Sheet (An old form of the standard sf-705 cover sheet, not in use since 1988)
Article cutout “Green Beret Colonel Under Fire (glued to full paper sheet. Width of 2 columns)
*Colby (crazy)letter to wife
*Picture of Colby
*Kurtz' letter to son [onion skin]
Surveillance photo of kurtz in Sillouhette (along with printed typed key taped to side)
Letter to Willard 'New Development” pick up the other special forces guy Colby
*CIA stationery (seen under above)
CIA report on Kurtz activities
Article packets bound with paper clips at least 3 of these.
*Kurtz' letter to the Journal of SE Asian Affairs
Official condemnation of letter
Termination and recall letter
transcripts of recordings
Kurtz Walter E. Folder Brown folder, left side tab. “Ivory I” is stuck to tab in black DYNO lettering.
This is the first folder given to Willard. At the meeting with the general. It's rudimentary stuff. The basic outline of Kurtz and his madness.
Picture of Kurtz 5”x7” (matte)
An intelligence report of some kind
about a dozen pictures of Vietnamese people,
roughly dozen pictures of Vietnamese village,
about two dozen pictures of American soldiers in Vietnam, these were in three piles.
All photosets held by a paperclip.
Two official looking filled-out forms with red stamps- Vietnamese,
Several CIA documents, apparently for look only as the text has nothing to do with Apocalypse events.
Two newspaper clippings with pictures of American troops, text in Vietnamese
3 Vietnamese IDs
*Photo Holders
Photo holder(s) (black vinyl back with clear front. 6”x 9” with chrome snap and gold “War Office” logo stamped on back) (we see at least 4 of these). Photo packets all have “CLASSIFIED” sticker on front flap. Sticker is 4.25” long x 1.17” tall.I think there are the following categories of photos:
Decorations: Kurtz being decorated or at official military functions
Battalions: Various battalions that Kurtz was part of
*CIA covert photos: all with typewritten slivers describing content of photo
*Atrocity Photos: plausibly photos taken from various sources chronicling.
with 5 Vietnamese Ids in it (vinyl 6”x 9” with snap and “War Office” logo on back) IVORY 4
*Montagard photograph
*NVA Regular photograph
*Mai Lai “extended fighting photograph
*Soldier standing with row of rifles with helmets
*Two soldiers standing photograph
Loose Stuff Various things aren't in the above 5 folders or photo holders.
* Map of Vietnam, Cambodia (special us military topo map. On bottom it says “dong sre viet” from 1965. These show up on Ebay from time to time. Loose
11°53′00″N
107°00′00″E
*Photo packet 8x10 with battalion picture on front, held by paper clip. Loose
Held by paper clips. Assorted CIA photos. This means black and white, each with a typewritten and glued on description. Loose
I've got most of Ivory 1 done.
Here's what I need:
What does the letter/form look like when you're promoted? I can't find this online? I'd assume that there'd be a letter with each promotion, saying what qualities led to the promotion right? Wouldn't that be in a military transcript folder?
Also for clarity, much of what I've surmised is based on my own assumptions. Very little of the overall structure of the folders was able to be gleaned from what I saw. So under no circumstances conclude that what I've written is canon. It's still up for discussion.
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